Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 2 year old female beardie that has been to the vet twice, fecals done(negative) had a eye infection, has patchy fungi spots on her face(same side as her bad eye) she was treated with baytril for the eye infection, switched to reptaid along with acidophiliz by pet authority to help her recover. She has slowed way down on the greens still eating live prey(crickets) good, pooping normal but doesn't look normal and not real active. Went from 268 grams to 246 grams in about a month. I have her separated by herself with a 100 watt powersun. I want her to still have a chance at life recovering but can't do anymore with expenses. Would anybody suggest me donating her to a reptile rescue?

Robb...

This is the unfortunate circumstance that some call, "failure to thrive." It is a shame and it sucks to have an animal not do well once you have built an attachment to it. You and I have talked a number of times, and I have tried to give you some tips etc.

Occasionally, an animal will not do well for several possible reasons:

1. The animal was a lower level member of the clutch in terms of vigor from the start.
(In a clutch not all the animals are going to be super hearty healthy and with great vigor.) It is usually a 40% to 60% ratio. 40% healthy hearty top of the line vigor... 60% not this way.

2. The parents may not have been top vigor breeders, and or the dam (mother) was not old enough or in top vigor when she started to be bred.

3. Some dragons just for some reason, do not thrive in captivity. They may have been crossed back into some genes that were too closely related or some unknown variable.

4. They may have an unknown virus that you would need to have diagnosed... you would need to swab the animal put the swab into an airtight package and have it sent off to a lab for analysis etc etc.

5. Improper care and husbandry.

6. parasitic infestation

7. Honestly... If we sat here long enough, I think we could come up with 20 different reasons as to why some just dont thrive.

This is why in the wild it is survival of the fittest. Darwinism

This is an evolutionary necessity.

The animals that are allowed to replicate and survive in the wild are the heartiest biggest healthiest creatures. And it also why the dragons lay 20 eggs in a clutch and lay several clutches year after year. Even with the evolutionary process in full swing the attrition rate still plays a big factor.

When you encounter an issue like this I would personally not pass the buck and hope for some rescue to hopefully treat the animal and provide it with a decent meager miserable existence.

You will most likely have to humanely euthanize the animal.

Sadly, this is the reality of the situation.

Didnt you say you had acquired this animal from a friend who was not taking proper care of it?

Personally, I would raise hell with that person and would make them contribute to sorting it out.

I hate to see people treat animals like this and I myself, like you... am an animal lover. Your friend is the one who should be involved with the euthanization process. Unfortunately, people who dont care for their animals properly... they too are usually the ones who wouldnt gain much of a learning experience such as this one would provide.

Find a healthy dragon from a reputable breeder and try hard to get one of the bigger ones from the clutch.

Dont pass the buck though that is my advice.

You made good efforts with this animal, and I commend you for them. The dragon was fortunate to have attempt to bring it back from the brink.

You efforts toward the keeping of dragons is better served working with hearty healthy specimens. Im not saying to cut your losses and run on a whim.

But when the animal has fungus and rot growing on its head this is a very bad thing and will normally mean a cruel prolonged death. You need to make a determination on what has to be done with the animal and much consistent effort you've made and how much progress you have had also.

Keeping dragons that are wild creatures requires a little bit of a hardened heart. The more knowledgeable you become the better any reptile will be under your care.

best regards

I have a female dragon that is not even a year old yet and was 320 grams the last time I weighed her a week ago.

At 2 years old she should be over 350 plus grams.

Has the treatment been completed? 20g in a month isn't that severe...especially if the dragon has been sick for that time. I would tough it out, feed well gut loaded insects and dust regularly with a multivitamin (once or twice a week for now) and dont' give up yet.

If I recall correctly your dragon had quite a few things wrong with it over the last several weeks, and its good to know you did take her in to see a vet and get treated. Any treatment does add some amount of stress. But once the eye is better and treatment is over, she will recover nicely. Keep her separated and as stress free as possible. Feed her what she will eat and keep the temperatures in idea ranges. Keep track of her weight with weekly or twice weekly weigh ins.

Though surrendering her in to a rescue is an option, keep in mind the move will be stressful on her and may make things worse than just keeping her and doing your best.

Acidiphis (or however its spelled) if I remember correctly is a probiotic..which is good to give after any antibotic or deworming treatment (as her fecels were clean, it must be the Baytil you gave, which is an antibotic). Make sure she gets plenty of water...use an eye dropper to drop water onto her nose and mouth till she starts to lick it from the dropper herself (be careful not to drop water on the nostrils though)
-----
PHLdyPayne

The problems you are experiencing are not considered "failure to thrive" that is a different problem altogether. I would never recommend euthanasia when a condition is medically treatable.

Is this the same dragon with the yellow around the vent? Or was this dragon housed with that dragon? Where are you located?

Your right he should continue to dump money and medication into the animal until it loses more weight and is really thriving by your standards.

eventually he would have a whole assortment of sick lame and lazy dragons similar to what you have rockin and rollin over there

The dragon was not properly taken care of and raised by the original owner, so he is perpetuating the issue by trying to keep it alive. Wasting money and resources on a dragon that is not going to thrive. If it does it is not going to have a high quality of existence.

Here is my advice:

Get a healthy thriving dragon from a reputable breeder and take care of the animal properly yourself. Dont try to take on others mistakes and perpetuate issues.

Work with healthy thriving animals, read and research proper husbandry techniques.

Avoid perpetuating and keeping animals that fail to thrive and come from people that did not take care of their animals to begin with.

Here is the thing about nature...

these are wild animals. They were removed a little over twenty plus years from nature and breed in captivity. Therefore...

We have begun a selective breeding process with these ectothermic desert dwelling reptiles.

So we have removed them from natural selection. (Survival of the fittest.)

We have induced artificial selection.

With natural selection you have nature that objectively removes the sick lame and lazy from the reproductive cycle. These animals genes are not permitted to be spread to future generations for good reason.

In some animal populations... one alpha male (most robust thriving dominant animal) will spread his genes to literally thousands and thousands of offspring.

In your case Robb...

The animal was not taken care of properly.

It is the person's fault that neglected the animal.

When you dump all kinds of medication into the animal, it has a number of issues, fungus growing on its head, is loosing weight, has no appetite, etc etc.

What are you doing by trying to perpetuate this and keep the animal alive? You are essentially prolonging a miserable meak meager existence.

If you wish to do what is best for the animals and as a whole, you need to stop being a tender loving selfish dearheart to the one animal and use that knowledge to help others never get to that point.

Just like...
When you see weak lame and lazy animals at the pet store... dont buy them thinking you're going to save the creature from misery.
Dont take in peoples animals that have been abused.

Stop the cycle of abuse and dont patronize those people or businesses.

It is sad when they get ill and do not recover. After a certain amount of due diligence, time, and money. Im sorry but it is best to euthanize the animal.

Only the person caring for the animal knows how much money, effort, time, and suffering buy the animal is tolerable.

In any case...

Dont pass the buck. That is how the whole thing started to begin with.

You are really the lowest of the human species.

Dragon fungus...

This is from a dragon book I have been reading:

The bearded dragon community has been alerted to an insidious yellow fungus that has been the death of a growing number of captive dragons.

This is typically treated with antibiotics which kill off good bacteria as well as bad. So then the fungus actually begins to flourish within the animals digestive system and create massive infections.

This fungus not only causes massive damage internally but is transferred to the outside of the dragon on the vent, arms, legs, belly, and other areas.

This fungus is contagious and will spread to other dragons.

It says that it can be treated but often the animal receives too much damage, probiotics are needed, and often cases are severe.

Any fungus growing on the outside of the animal is not a good sign.

here is a group that discusses such matters...

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/pogona_diseases/?

yellow fungus

That is not yellow fungus disease.

yellow fungus disease can be treated. The picture above doesn't look like yellow fungus to me, more like a series of sores, perhaps from cricket predation or scale rot, or a combination of both.

hubpages.com/hub/Yellow-Flesh-Eating-Fungus-Nannizziopsiosis-in-Bearded-Dragons

https://biblio.ugent.be/record/887738

I also feel that anybody willing to put the time, money and effort into bringing a reptile or any animal for that matter, from illness to good health deserves praise. True, it is always best to buy healthy animals from responsible breeders, instead of buying sick animals from owners who didn't give proper care (whether due to ignorance or neglect) but it is in the nature of good people to try and help those in need, which include these poor animals.

Would it be better to just euthanize them all just because it costs some money to get these animals back into good health? Should all animal rescues kill every animal brought over to them who are not already in perfect health to save money? I don't think so...BDLvr obviously doesn't think so, giving he spends plenty of time and money taking care of rescued animals who would have suffered a slow death otherwise, but now thrive under his care. Not to mention countless other rescues all around the country and world.

Each person must decide themselves how much they are willing and able to spend to ensure their pets are in good health. Its not something anybody else can recommend, to be honest. However there are animals that are too far gone that nothing could be done, no matter how much money or effort is expended. In this case, I don't think its too late.
-----
PHLdyPayne

Im not saying that all animals that are sick should be offed.

I do actually commend BDlvr for having a soft heart and caring for these rescue animals.

When the time comes that a great deal of effort energy and resources have been used to bring an animal back and it still does not thrive... I feel the owner has to make a call on what is humane suffering by the animal.

If people who are keeping their animals with lack luster care do not need to be passing the buck IMPO nor have anywhere to pass the buck off to.

It really sickens me to see the animals left to endure such misery.

Personally, I think by helping in many cases you're enabling.

When someone is a downright know it all, and condescending prick then he earned the flack as far as Im concerned.

Ive got some stuff to work on... it has been fun as always.

Dont enable people who mistreat these animals by allowing a save haven for rescue operations. It only perpetuates the issue.

That has been my argument.

good night

You got me.

It is not the "yellow fungus" variety it is just some "fungus". All the same in my eyes quite honestly.

I dont specialize in the vermin infested propagation, buck passing, and animal neglect though so I wouldnt know.

Like I said... when I have mistreated my animal to the point that it is missing all four limbs I will know who to call.

I commend you for your efforts but can find many reasons why I feel it is a pitty party that only perpetuates what it attempts to stop.

I know you love to go round and round and round though so keep up the good work.

Sound husbandry and enormous amounts of attention to sanitary keeping of these animals is what I tout.

thanks