Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This litter came 7 days early. Pedra was produced here in August 2005 from my male Motley, Black Jack. She was bred by one of my male Russian line T+ Albinos or "Blondes". The results were shocking to say the least. There were 7 slugs, 1 stillborn, 5 100% Het Blonde T+......and 4 Super Motleys 100% Het Blonde T+. The stillborn also looked to be a Super Motley. I will be curious to hear about other experiences and opinions as I know an occasional random Super Motley has occurred in other breedings.She was bred for the first time this season and has not been with any other males.

Mom:

Dad:

What's This?:

Litter:

More Mom photos

More Dad photos

More Litter photos

Thanks for looking,
gray

There is someone on the West coast that will be very excited about this as well. Do you think that the super motley mutation was caused by the blond T mutation? Typically only one spontaneous super will pop up. Congratulations!

Steve - sdi

Hi Gray,

Do you think the entire litter was a product of parthogenisis (sp?) since it's 1/2 normal and 1/2 supers? Just a thought. I wonder if they are all female?

Anyways, that's still pretty cool regardless!
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

April, I'm going to have some genetic testing done that will confirm whether the Blonde male was the father so this hypothesis will be tested. Thanks for the input.
gray

mentioned the surprise in the e-mail yesterday. Thats why I asked if it happend in the Motley litter. This has happened 2 years in a row to someone in the U.K. but think she was early both times and they didn't make it. CONGRATS Gray! Somethins up with the Blonde X Motley thing.

Ruben,
I did try a Motley sister with my other Blonde male but I don't think it took. Too bad we couldn't get results from that for comparison.

Congratulations on a great litter!

As Ruben rightly pointed out, I bred a male Blonde Albino to a female Motley in 2008 with similar results. Unfortunately she delivered her litter prematurely & they all died, there were two Super Motleys in this litter.

I bred the same pair together in 2009 with almost identical results. Again the litter was premature & again the litter included two Super Motleys!

Very interseting to see something similar has happened with your litter & great to see they have made it full term!

Marc

www.selectivebred.com

Hiya Marc! Glad you chimed in. Did you have normal Motleys in your 2 premie litters? Hope all is well with you over there and your having a great season! What Blonde stuff are you expecting?

Hi Ruben, how could I not chme in on an interesting subject like this!

Yes, I had Motley hets, Super Motley hets & normal hets in both litters.

My season should start in 2-3 weeks time, so I'm busy pacing the floor in front of the cages right now! I have a few nice pairings this year including Blonde T positive x Hypo Jungle & Blonde T positive x Sharp ....... now theres another interesting project eh?!

Marc
www.selectivebred.com

We might have to do some blood trading and get in on the next export/import shipment! I need a male DH Sharp/Blonde from that litter and a Hypo Jungle het Blonde witll work also! Let m eknow when you have your stuff and we can figure something out. Say hi to Peter for me!

I'm sure we can sort something out if/when they hit the ground, but lets not tempt fate!

You may recognise the female Hypo Jungle thats been with the T positive male .....

Sorry to hijack your thread Gray!

Marc
www.selectivebred.com

Congratulations Gray some very interesting results indeed.

Either something unusual is occurring between Motley and T-Blonde
or Parthenogenesis is a possibility as April pointed out !

In this case I'm leaning towards an unusual mixture between the
two strains resulting in these Super Mots.

Mostly because of the similar results seen by Marc N.

I'm glad at least three babies made it out of the first litter
I was hoping for a higher survival rate.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Amazing results Gray. One thing that is weird, is that if it were partho, you would think to have seen a normal motley or two in there as well. I believe that is correct. In any event, there definitely seems to be something up with the motley X Blonde pairings. It will be interesting to say the least to see what happens in a few more breedings.

Have there been any normal motleys het Blonde produced? Or does there seem to be a gap between normal and super motley that people have not been able to see? Just curious.

Zach

>> One thing that is weird, is that if it were partho, you would think to have seen a normal motley or two in there as well.

That is exactly the reason why I suspected partho, because there were no normal motleys. The female can only pass 2 genes, either motley or normal, if they were partho then they would get 2 of the same genes from the mother meaning 1/2 would be normals and 1/2 would be supers. At least that's how I understood it.
I could be wrong?
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

That is totally dependent on the form of parthenogenesis. Terminal fusion automictic parthenogenesis would result in normals and supers. Central fusion automictic parthenogenesis, and premeiotic doubling would result in clones (baring some mutations) of the mother.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

......thanks to Marc for bringing his experience and results to the table. Very interesting that he got Motleys and Super Motleys in his similar breedings. Of course, my eyes were expecting the familiar Motley pattern when I pulled back the newspaper and was shocked to find dark, patternless babies. I wonder if there have been any other breedings (besides Motley x Motley) that have produced more than one Super Motley baby. Is Motley x Blonde the only pairing to create this?
gray

I'm pretty sure Jeremy has had a litter or two where there was only one Motley parent and he got more then just one super Mot in the litter. Just don't kow what the breeding was. Maybe he'll see this and tell us.

Frank Martin had two sibling female Motleys bred to a male monstertail both produce supers. I have those in my freezer right now. They were dead or died shortly after birth. I do not believe he had any motleys produced in those litters.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

I believe it was 13 super motleys out of the two litters as well. I want to think maybe 6 and 7 in each but this was a couple months back.

Nice litter, pretty odd though.

Hopefully, the Motleys make it along with the other Boas. Looks like at least 2 of the Motleys may have a good chance or better chance of making it then the ones with yolk bellies.

It looks like there's still quite a bit to learn about the Motley gene. Seems like it works in a co-dom mannor, when mixed with some recessive and other co-dom genes, even though they're completely different and unrelated genes.

Hopefully the one who started the Motley project can unravel all the Motley gene mysteries?

Congrats,

Chaz Neely
constrictors@comcast.net

Nice litter, pretty odd though.

Hopefully, the Motleys make it along with the other Boas. Looks like at least 2 of the Motleys may have a good chance or better chance of making it then the ones with yolk bellies.

It looks like there's still quite a bit to learn about the Motley gene. Seems like it works in a co-dom mannor, when mixed with some recessive and other co-dom genes, even though they're completely different and unrelated genes.

Hopefully the one who started the Motley project can unravel all the Motley gene mysteries?

Congrats,

Chaz Neely
constrictors@comcast.net