Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-100604-reptile-man-cullen,0,2251263.story

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/95564899.html

The place looks really filthy, and there are animals that are nothing more then skeletons in tubs.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95655934.html - Quoted from here -

"The explanation for the condition of many of these animals is that is exactly the way these animals are to be kept," Glynn said."

Ugg...Stock tanks and rubbermaid tubs are fine for housing animals IMO, when they house the proper sized critter and are set up right, with good basking areas, etc, but when kept poorly, even the nicest of enclosures is nothing more then a tomb.

I know after seeing these photos, I certainly wonder what Terry has to say for himself and his husbandry of his rare charges - or, should I add, lack of good husbandry.

Very Disappointing.

That doesn't look good.
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1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Molly"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie" Recently passed away at 24 years old
Help me find this snake!

Understatement of the month.

Who needs the AR people when herpers do this to themselves?

Hmm..Are you just posting because you like reading your posts?

What possible value did that really have to add to anything, besides blowing wind...?

"Who needs the AR people when herpers do this to themselves?"

Those sort of photos make the whole thing looks like any "typical" hoarding situation, just with different species. Hoarding animals like that is an illness.

Yes it does look like a horrific hoarder situation. But why single my comment out for being somehow non-contributive to the subject matter at hand?

The fact is, a few weeks ago there were plenty of comments made about Terry that defended him somewhat prematurely, and quickly devolved into an anti-AR rant because of an individual reporting him in the first place, etc., etc., etc...

Bottom line is that he appears to have done this to himself and any blame should stay where it belongs.

"Bottom line is that he appears to have done this to himself and any blame should stay where it belongs."

I agree. Maybe it was unintentional on your part but your first reply said "herpers" do this to themselves. I think it was the insinuation that this was a "herper" problem, rather than a Terry Cullen problem that was the issue.

If it is a problem? I'm not sure now after reading that he might have been preparing skeletons.

I hope the condition of the siezed animals is well documented and in a timely fashion. My friend lost over 100 research rubber boas to Utah Fish and Wildlife that died in their care over a two year period. He was eventually exhonorated because he had scientific permits for all of them and the wildlife officials had misidentified them. They did covict him on not having a vet certificate even though the warrant was for possessing protected species. It was actually the first time Utah had applied the vet cert law to herps, it was written for livestock purposes but they used it at the end when, IMO they had to save face after killing his research animals.
In fact I don't know of even one case in which the confiscation of a large number of herps has NOT resulted in a large percent of them dying.

I am well acquainted with your friends story I have a friend who runs a rescue in SLC who told me all about him. Anyone who hears that story should be filled with rage, I was. And I don't care about rubber boas. But it was wrong and he got screwed.
Being a croc guy I'm doubly concerned about this situation.
As herpers we are to small of a group, we have to stick together.
Whether you are a big snake guy, or venemous, or croc or rubber boas. We have to stand up for each other.
At least until we know all the facts. D.C.

This is absolutely horrible. Frankly I'm surprised and disgusted. As a group keeping lg. Crocs in cattle tanks is something that should never be done except with neonates 24" long or smaller. Big crocs need buoyancy that deeper water provides. Without this it would be like you sleeping on concrete 247 and while you could survive it is anything but comfortable. It saddens me to see this happen to these magnificent creatures....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I did'nt look at these pics. If I can't click it on it I don't look it up. But days ago I saw some pretty disturbing pics.
One was a trough with a dried up Trig and the other was a snake in an aquarium that had been dead for some time.
I looked at the caiman in the trough pretty close. What I was looking for was dermistid beetles or cardboard some sign that this was a osteological preparation in progress. I did'nt see any signs. But none the less the animal looked "prepared" for this.
My other great passion besides reptiles is skulls and bones.
In fact the same year I got my first exoctic reptile (green iguana '65) I got my first skull( bobcat my brother found on a boy scout campout).
Who here has'nt walked into their snake building one morning and smelled something dead. An uneaten rodent that was left on a warm spot that became amazingly ripe overnight.
Now do you really think someone would leave a 3-4 foot dead crocodilian in a trough indoors long enough to become that descimated. You could'nt stay in that room. And the neighbors never smelled a thing?
I've been in contact with a guy who knows Terry and has been in conversation with him.
The first words out of his mouth, Terry got the Trig from a friend it was in very poor condition and died. The friend then asked if Terry would do an osteological preparation on it.
I guess this is also a hobby for terry because he said he would.
The snake Terry claims to have never seen. He had no idea where that pic was taken.
Just about every real reptile person I have ever known has a freezer full of dead reptiles. Even the ones that don't collect skulls for some reason if something dies thats what you do, put it in the freezer. Terry had 1 gator and 1 snake in his freezer.
The media had a frenzy. If they saw my freezer they would burn me at the stake. Surely I must be satantic to have all these dead animals. Yet I just think I'm a biologist of course I'm interested in bones.
Once again I still don't know Terry.
There were 4 Phillipine Crocs. Obviously one of the rarest crocs in the world. I'm not positive but I think like the Komodo they all belong to the King whether they are captve born or not.
I wonder what they will think if animal control allows such a rare animal to die.
BTW Terry claims their is no validity to the sexual assualt charges and he has proof that will exonerate him. D.C.

As someone who does taxidermy & skeletal prep, I don't know why I didn't think of that, and immediately "went" with the medias spin. Sorry about that.

The croc does look VERY clean, and being sans skin is a good idea something is up, as crocs skin is usually fused to bone, and a skull left out to rot (like in a rot cage) often get skin fused to is. That skeleton looks very clean. (The again, it could have been submurged when it decayed, and that could have been why it is so "clean"

I used to have dermestids and a skeletonization tank out in the shed. A severe allergy to them developed, and I had to get rid of them. My extra freezer always has strange critters in it, from exotic birds to reptiles to some mammals, waiting to be mounted.

I guess I will have to wait to see and hear more to decide what exactly is going on.

There's some serious clutching at straws going on here. LOL.

Clutching at straws? Really?

Steph, I am feeling more and more like those who called you a troll were right. You are certainly acting like one.

We will see when we have more photos. As he had 200 animals, and they were in similar condition, we should soon see. If 199 of them were in good to decent shape, and one caiman was a skeleton, then it leads me to think that it was being prepared for a skeleton. If many were in squalor and lacked clean water, etc, then it looks like hoarding and lack of care.

I agree making a judgment against him based on 2 or 3 photos that we really don't know the story behind is not well thought out.

The sound of one hand clapping is what we need in regards to a certain poster.

Clutching at straws????
I'm a croc keeper. I have and do keep some in troughs. I have one in a trough right now. It has water in it and he is very much alive. In fact I just fed him a rat.
STILL when I saw the pic of the caiman in the trough my first thought was osteo prep. The fact you think it is clutching at straws tells me a few things about you.
You don't think past the obvious. And your mind is not open enough to accept anything you don't already know.
My god how do you learn anything?
Post that exact same pic on the Yahoo skull club forum and the only reaction you would get is, is it full body or just the skull?
And can I have it?
In an indoor setting that level of decompsition would take months. That is a fact. In the mean time the whole buildimg is stinking so bad you want to puke.
So all the water evaporated, the caiman eventually died and no one noticed, or cared about the amazing stench. Yet his neighbors did'nt know he had animals????
I have done hundreds of skull preps and that is exactly what the start looks like.
Before I got my large commercial (broken) freezer guess what I used for my beetle colony. That's right a trough.
This has nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of Terry Cullen. But as someone who has a lot of experience with crocs and skulls I'm telling you my thoughts.
Youth and inexperience are usually the causes for people not seeing various points of view. Which is your excuse? D.C.

I think if it were dead in the water for anytime the bones would have started to disarticulate.
I have'nt done any serious cleaning in a while. I keep thinking in my spare time...
Meanwhile my freezers would make a nice museum for a medium size city. D.C.

"They found live mice cannibalizing dead ones" Well, I've seen that happen in an hour while they're being transported.

What I really hate is having to sit through an online commercial before the story starts.

I still reserve judgement until all of it is out. Still innocent until proven guilty, and his previous track record is good.

I stand by my earlier comments. Trying the guy in the press isn't right, anymore than hoarding animals is right. Misbehavior by the police isn't right either. My understanding is that the guy wasn't even in town. Could be wrong on that.
Just because some interest group is assisted by authority and has control of the message does not mean a person's rights have not been seriously violated here.
Time will tell.
jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

He wasn't in town but here in Texas working on another Chinese Alligator project.
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Tim Cole
www.austinherpsociety.org
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
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Conservation through Education