Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Very good points everybody brought up. I think very good insights.

Unfortunately we in the hobby are sometimes looked upon by proffessionals, politicians and the general public as shallow consumers of wild resources. Like the man who HAS to have a bear or tiger ot Chimp as a house pet. Or a very wealthy spoiled individual that MUST have his own Bald Eagle. That perception gets no sympathy from those folks. PETA folks look at us as mass consumers of reptiles as disposable pets. Living creatures that they see as belonging in the wild not kept in tiny little plastic bins like chickens raised in little boxes for the food industry inhumanely.

A big PR problem for being respected and taken seriously.

I agree that PR is a big problem and herp keepers often get lumped in with the other "crazies". Most people don't realize that there are 13 million or so reptiles in this country which breaks down to about i home in 25 having a pet herp. This is a bigger population than motorcycle riders, NRA members, and Hindus. Reptile keeping is main stream yet somehow still unknown. I don't really know why this is.

Also, while there are some animals that I think never belong in captivity of any kind (chimps, dolphins), where do you draw the line? You say, what rational person would ever want a pet bald eagle, but maybe some falconer has waited his whole life to learn and train enough to be able to have his own eagle. Who has the right to stop them? Touchy stuff...

Check out rexano. org. I don't agree with everything but it is an interesting site for sure.

I agree.

As with many things in life, the truth differs from the perception as much as it doesn't. I could be wrong, but I believe the current known natural history of certain species was largely due to the efforts of hobbiests and reptile "freaks" as opposed to professional herpetologists. Granted, to make money in the early days.

And I think widespread success of captive breeding was also mostly due to the reptile community as opposed to zoos and professional institutions.

You are hardpressed to hear that info on the news.
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Mark

I have a tiny itsy bitsy problem with your statement. You said, GRANTED TO MAKE MONEY, about the private herpers and hobbyist. As if that is a bad thing.

Do you think professional herpers, that work at zoos or universities work for FREE?? They also do it for money.

For instance, who pays for field work, the herp professor or the school, or a grant. Would they work for free like most of us private herpers did/do? We even work at a loss money wise. hahahahahahahahaha, ok they are indeed smarter then us.

The point is, knowledge and information does not care where the money comes from. In fact, if herps had a REAL value, they would have been bred and understood, decades earlier. They were ignored because they had no value to society.

Do you think the government would want to get rid of us if we were big business? heck no, they want tax dollars. Those who pay the most taxes are the ones supported by law. Heck, if smokes were free, they would be against the law. What about pot, hahahahahahaha lets legalize it and tax it. Booze, hmmmmmmmmm taxes taxes taxes. Go green and get rid of petrol fuels, heck no, to much taxes here, keep using it, heck with the global warming, hahahahahahahahaha. Ok, its not funny, but there is real truth here.

Guys, its all about money, if snakes had a chemical that was used to prevent cancer, they would have VALUE and would be bred like chickens, or if we ate them. Etc etc etc.

If we hunted them like deer we would save their habitat, problem is, no money, no real value. No value, goodbye.

The making of the captive bred industry was and is the very best chance for their protection in nature.

I do find it funny that folks us money as a negative thing when every friggin thing we do is ABOUT MONEY. Stop making it and see what happens. Cheers

No, I get it. Ironically, the desire to make some money from zonata for example led to a much greater understanding of the wild habits of zonata. Who am I to judge? Some of the good rosyboa spots back then are now houses and freeways and strip malls.

What I want to know is why I care so much about stupid snakes that do not mean much to the vast majority and make me zero dollars. Its a cross to bear I tell you.
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Mark

All good points.

But today's reptiles industry does make money. Boat loads of it. Last I heard (don't ask me where) upwards of 2 bil/year. So why is government fighting against the herp industry tooth and claw? Once again, the money trail only takes you so far. When you pit 2 billion against generations of deep seated fear and misunderstanding, the money still looses!

Until we get a "first boa constrictor" in the white house to keep the "first Portuguese water dog" company we are all SOL.

That Theodore Roosevelt kept snakes and lizards? Yep, he loved herps (well, all animals). I wish more Presidents did that.
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Mark

Didn't some of our earlier presidents have really interesting critters? Hippos, bears, gators...*sigh* being POTUS does have some perks I guess
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Frank this may be a stretch but sometimes I think that the government doesn't want independant people to have the ability to create wealth directly off of the earth's resources. They want all the resources to belong to either the government so it can control and sell them, or to corporations which can be more easily taxed.

I am not a commercial collecter and I certainly don't support unmanaged commercial collecting. However if harvests were managed at sustainable levels commercial collecting would be perhaps one of the "greenest" sources of wealth there could ever be. One does not need to alter natural environments at all in order to harvest wildlife. It "costs" the environment much less to replace a wild caught herp(a living jewel) than it does to replace real jewels(gold rings, watches, etc.). A recreationally kept herp "costs" the environment far less to replace than so many other forms of recreation.