Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Due to medical reason using rodents as a food source isnt an option for me. What other foods could be used? I.e.-- anoles,snakes,quail,fish? Anyone else had to do something along these lines? What had the most success?

What medical issue do you have?
If this is too personal a question don't feel obligated to answer.
Don't forget that rodents can be frozen thawed and handled with latex gloves.
Milk snakes will not eat fish but they love small snakes,lizards and their eggs but that can become costly.
Garter snakes will do fine on gold fish.
Also dont forget that most milk snakes do not eat adult mice they eat pinkies and fuzzies.
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If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him...is he still wrong?

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Doug L

Seems like I'll need to go the lizard,baby quail?, snake route. Im guessing the snake route would be the most likely to get a feeding response. Now the question is? where can I get feeder snakes from with out costing and arm and a leg?

lizards ,frozen can be bought from classifieds...but we like lizards,and as mentioned..costly...

baby quail....no sweat if you just buy bigger milks already grown a little or more...

baby snakes....corns run 3 to 5 a piece wholesale if you find them from the right people...also if you have enough friends you can get the one eyed and deformed baby corns etc for free...I freeze them usually and have given them to people with king cobra or just kingsnakes to get them started...I also last year just fed the non-feeders to the red milks...they each only ate like 1 each...weird...but the growth spurt was noticable....this year I try again!LOL....

.....if you are just allergic to rodents....as mentioned...frozen pinks and fuzz...small-ish milks....get shots...and use mask and gloves....one of the FOUNDING herpers in this industry is allergic to rodents...he would "pay" when he came to my home or any other home with a large colony of mice (etc).....he got shots all the time...used frozen thawed and maybe gloves? I think...masks for the few live feeding holdouts he had.....

......there are so many snakes...you can find something....even BIGGER rat or kings and use chicks.....sell babies real fast so you don't need to deal with pinks....(if you breed)

good luck....
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A all goldfish diet will kill snakes due to an enzyme that blocks the absorbtion of vitamin B called Thiamin.

"A all goldfish diet will kill snakes due to an enzyme that blocks the absorbtion of vitamin B called Thiamin."

Thanks this was something I didnt know. Is this something just found in goldfish or are there other fish that dont cause this problem?

Pop on over to other forums like the garter and water snake forums and get a good take on this issue. Snakes will certainly eat some things, but they cant survive on them.

there are other fish too...like rosy red minnows...they have the thiaminase problem too....
....my garters( 2 ) were switched to pinks right away...scented with a horned creek chub...and I use worms...but I squeeze the peat moss out of them....
worms from driveways is bad, red worms are bad, frozen something is bad ,but I forget what...?....some fish...

....quail chicks.....eggs.....poor things....LOL...

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......JY

I have a oriental grocery store down the street. Silversides from fresh water are OK, so are most "wild" fish. Just not for MILKS...

...they let you in there?....

Chinese broccoli....cheaper ducks...(head included and feets!)...cheaper squid,shiitake shrooms dried by the BIG bag....rice noodles of all kinds....mmmmm......dried krill, dried little fishes and shrimps......lychees....fresh homegrown bean sprouts by the big bag....watercress.....aaaaahhh...

you makin me hungry....Chinese buffet ,love them....laughed and joked about one moving into the bar at the end of my block....wow...one did.....LOL...I told them...yea...but my luck it will suck....it does...but the takeout is killer....

....anyways....I gotta find some small worms ....fish I don't think...but corns have been known to eat them at least 2 times I've been told......

.....I cannot believe you didn't come back in here yelling and screaming at me.....(good for you Skippy!!!)....good...was posted for info not to bust your pecans....
.
....anything is possible.....

...good luck.......>>>....

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......JY

>>Due to medical reason using rodents as a food source isnt an option for me. What other foods could be used? I.e.-- anoles,snakes,quail,fish? Anyone else had to do something along these lines? What had the most success?

Are you determined to raise milks/kings, or will other species do? For example, some snake species will live on fish and/or worms just fine. Some even eat insects. So it depends on which snakes you have your heart set on.

Also, they are a bit hard to find, but one or two companies also make snake "sausages" -- processed meal packets that you thaw and feed.

And finally -- it is *possible* to feed snakes muscle meats like chicken, especially if you supplement with vitamin/mineral products and scent the meat with some acceptable prey item. However, you do have to be very careful about complete nutrition if you go this route.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

These 3 Eastern Milks are Wc from the Waukesha county area in Wisconsin. They are about 2.5 to 3ft range. Ive offered green anoles but no interest and I managed to catch a 10 inch Eastern Garter and tried scenting the anoles with it but still nothing so far. No plans on breeding at the moment and my luck that I like these Easterns way better than the other Milks and cant seem to find much other than generic info on them. Ive seen the snake sausages online but it seems all links lead to "discontinued" items. If anyone can point me in the direction of feeder snake/lizard breeders-ie corn,garter, lizards or ??? for a reasonable monthly price then Im game. I'll look into odering baby button quail as well.

Oh and they range from 93 grams to 116 grams.

Finding a steady supply of baby snakes will be difficult. After all, breeders are looking to sell their babies for better than wholesale prices at shows, etc. However, if you offer to buy a big enough group, you may just have to freeze them like you would mice and defrost as needed. Also, the deformed ones will be limited as well. I would try the quail route asap. They may go for it and you an keep the easterns on the quail.

>>These 3 Eastern Milks are Wc from the Waukesha county area in Wisconsin.

I don't know specific Eastern milk preferences, but milks in general are known to eat:

slugs
bugs
earthworms
lizards
small mammals
birds
eggs
frogs
fish
snakes

I'd try all of the above. It should be easy to get slugs and earthworms from your yard (or from a bait shop), and you can easily buy crickets or feeder fish at any pet shop. Depending on the size of the snakes, you can try button quail eggs, Coturnix quail eggs, or other eggs. You might be able to catch tadpoles or frogs. Just try most anything you can get your hands on!

Good luck, and have fun exploring the possibilities!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

slugs
bugs
earthworms
lizards
small mammals
birds
eggs
frogs
fish
snakes

............in the wild they'll eat alot more than in a cage...

....anoles may not work...wrong imprint lizard....skinks or sceloporus might work though....birds should work....good luck....
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......JY

>>............in the wild they'll eat alot more than in a cage...

Sure -- but ya never know til ya try!

Not related to this guy's problem, but when my snakes are big enough I'm planning to offer them eggs every now and then. I have egg-layers in every size from button quail to turkey, so I'll have a wide variety to choose from!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I wouldn't really bother with the eggs too too often...I feed some milks corn(and other snake) eggs all the time....I do it because, why waste the duds....the hondos are good at eating alot of eggs....then the empty shells all squished and squeezed out come out the back door a few days later and I regret it....
they did NOT eat ball eggs a few times I tried...just a couple days ago even....not smelling the way they wanted I guess....

I DID see good growth on baby red milks fed cornsnakes....as mentioned...I will be doing that again real soon....first batch of ultramel lavs came out ....5 didn't,but I left them too long and they probably smelled/rotted.....I need to pull the deformed /dead ones faster....(these were just dead in egg)...

......I just don't like the bird and egg smell in the fecal matter.....never did....

good luck....

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"skinks or sceloporus " Thanks for the tip.

I don't know specific Eastern milk preferences, but milks in general are known to eat:

slugs--NO-poisonous
bugs---NO-and you could be more specific
earthworms--NO-no milks eat worms
lizards --some, very difficult to work with
small mammals --most WC adult Easterns wont eat domestic rodents
birds --Milks are found underground, not sure how many birds are found there,lol. good luck finding appropriate sized babies.
eggs -in theory yes, but not in practice due to the size issue
frogs --young milks will eat them due to their feeding response, some adults will take certain species.
fish -Never
snakes -again some. They will feast on brown, red belly and greens. Ringnecks can be poisonous. Garters and waters musk usually scares milks off...except babies. Hard and $$ to get in quantity.

I'd try all of the above. It should be easy to get slugs and earthworms from your yard (or from a bait shop), and you can easily buy crickets or feeder fish at any pet shop. Depending on the size of the snakes, you can try button quail eggs, Coturnix quail eggs, or other eggs. You might be able to catch tadpoles or frogs. Just try most anything you can get your hands on!

Where on earth did you find your information?? WC adult Eastern milks have been feeding on litters of moles, voles, shrews, wild mice etc that smell nothing like anything you mentioned. If the poster wants a special feeder he should get a special feeder, not subject his captives to a inadequate diet. Tough love on the OP, but if he doesnt offer the proper diet the snakes would be best served let go where he found them.

"not subject his captives to a inadequate diet."

It feels like I'm being made out to be a bad guy by that statement. In reality all our pets--dogs cats,birds,fish,reptiles,horses--etc are "captives"
Im not trying to subject them to something inadequate at all.I am trying to find an alternative that will allow me to have healthy snakes to enjoy just like everyone else-unfortunately I do have some restrictions. I asked for advice because Ive limited experiance with colubrid snakes. If these were pythons(Ive owned for last 20yrs) I wouldnt be even asking as mine already have no problems -health or other-with the chicks they eat. And I have no problem letting them go back where I found them if there health becomes an issue. Im monitoring their weight and behavior daily.

you aren't being made the bad guy....we all told all kinds of stuff...we all wonder why?....allergies?....

anyways....

try....whatever ....try.....

./.....good luck....
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......JY

Regius71, we know you know ball pythons. Milks, wild caught adults in particular, are MUCH different animals. I have had some adult captives that didnt eat for a year, but its not the not eating that makes them "sick". Its STRESS. They are wired differently to begin with, but wc adults have gotten to their size and age doing what they do in the wild. If you are lucky they'd take rodents, if thats not an option I'd say you are out of luck. Let me explain.
With all due respect to the "try anything" league, each time you introduce a potential food item its stressful. Each time you offer you subject them to minimally 4 days of stress if food items arent taken. That stress accumulates. Add shed cycles in and improper temps, and a new environment...it adds up. These guys are COLD weather animals, not hot, not even warm. Yet they need those temps too. Its difficult to balance everything just right even with captive bred stuff. Keeping wc milks is more art than even I will admit.

sometimes...you think...just too much....

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rack, 82, food twice a week, breed when ready....brumate for 3 months at 55....works for albut everything....

.....LMFFAO....

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......JY

slugs--NO-poisonous ......?..///..no they aren't...people and garters eat them???no? yea?

bugs---NO-and you could be more specific ...///.ant larvae?...

earthworms--NO-no milks eat worms .....???..///..corns have, I bet milks would, I will try on the OC tempos...

lizards --some, very difficult to work with..///..frozen skinks are not difficult to keep alive...

small mammals --most WC adult Easterns wont eat domestic rodents ..../// PA ones will usually....(and if not....I got peromyscus,domestic ones)

birds --Milks are found underground, not sure how many birds are found there,lol. good luck finding appropriate sized babies. ....
YOU ,me and everyone else in the world almost never found an eastern milk underground...basements don't count...you'd have to be digging....wait...a guy I knew dug one out of his sand box in winter....25 degrees and just burried in some sand....he left it go above ground in the snow...duh...anyways....I gotta try quails....wait...I don't have any easterns....

eggs -in theory yes, but not in practice due to the size issue .///..size issue???....you telling him he can't feed eggs to a 4 foot monster eastern milk?...finches....aaaah...

frogs --young milks will eat them due to their feeding response some adults will take certain species. ///...I'd have to see this...

fish -Never ....///baby corns have been listed as eating guppies...more than once...

snakes -again some. They will feast on brown, red belly and greens. Ringnecks can be poisonous. Garters and waters musk usually scares milks off...except babies. Hard and $$ to get in quantity.
................seen racer with a ringneck sticking out of it after car cut it open....squished...

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I didn't hit on the list.....I am going to try little worms for real....why not....shoving tails sucks enough....they didn't eat the pink parts yet or the peromyscus parts...thought one would hit the peros'....(and I got 6 more to try soon as they shed out...)....ouch....

.....easterns usually eat some mouse product here for us.....the male the cops brought me slammed all the mice fuzz I would give him....only had him a couple weeks....he's out in the wood now....

,.......have fun....!,...what's cooking Jeffrey?....(*egg wise).///
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......JY

>>I don't know specific Eastern milk preferences, but milks in general are known to eat:
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>>slugs--NO-poisonous

Baloney. Snakes such as Storeria and Clonophis are well known to eat slugs -- not to mention Duberria, known (oddly enough) as the slug-eating snake.

>>birds --Milks are found underground, not sure how many birds are found there,lol.

Duh, Jeff. They don't stay underground for their entire lives -- and many birds nest on the ground. LOL yourself.

>>good luck finding appropriate sized babies.

It's easy to raise button quail, which are very good at producing bumblebee-sized babies. Likewise, it's easy to raise society finches for either eggs or chicks.

>>eggs -in theory yes, but not in practice due to the size issue

Size isn't really an issue if you're willing to put a little effort into it. See society finches and button quail above.

>>Where on earth did you find your information??

References on lizards, eggs, mammals, reptiles, and/or birds include many many web sites.

Sources specifically mentioning insects, slugs, and/or earthworms in the diet of L. triangulum include, amongst others:

Encylopedia of Animals online database (EBSCO Publishing)

Montana Field Guide -- http://fieldguide.mt.gov/detail_ARADB19050.aspx

Natural History of the Milk Snake (Lampropeltis triangulum) in Northeastern Kansas. Henry S. Fitch and Robert R. Fleet. Herpetologica, Vol. 26, No. 4 (Dec., 1970), pp. 387-396

Williams, K.L. 1988. Systematics and Natural History of the American Milk Snake, Lampropeltis triangulum. Milwaukee Public Museum, Milwaukee, WI.

COSEWIC Assessment and Status Report on the Milksnake Lampropeltis triangulum in Canada. Canadian Wildlife Service, 2002.

Rodriguez M.C., Drummond H. Exploitation of avian nestlings and lizards by insular milksnakes, Lampropeltis triangulum. 2000. Journal of Herpetology, vol. 34, no. 1, pp. 139-142.

There are many more applicable refs out there, but those should get ya started.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

First, citing literature 40 years or over isnt exactly appropriate. Too often with your examples(I did look them up)never once cite a personal experience of this actually happening. Williams didnt do any stomach content analysis. These guys just take what someone else wrote and cite it....and carry the myth along. If you find a frog and a slug in the snakes stomach does it mean that the snake ATE the slug? Of course not. But thats not how past research was done. This is why passing on such misinformation is frowned on. Could it happen? Sure. If it happened to one snake in Montana should the guy in Wisconsin try it? Where will that info get you? A snake surely cant survive on such a diet so where is the arguement? A garter snake will eat a goldfish...and will continue to do so til it gets sick and dies. If you were lucky enough to have a infinite amount of slugs would they do the same? Good chance. In the wild they are more opportunistic, in captivity you manage the stress that is created by not offering these choices. Offering 20 different food items is not a good way to manage stress.
So if anyone has any experiece with said foods by all means pipe in. If there are specific personal notes on witnessed experiences please lets hear them as well. But lets agree to leave regurgitation and stomach content analysis out of this. I did hear someone got a baby milk started on canned TUNA a few years ago. I tried it, nada. Guppy? Was that a feeding response or suckered defense response? Only heard this worked once. Many successful breeders of hard to keep babies force feed then over winter babies to start out. Consider how many baby birds 3 adult milks will need.....even if they liked em. As far as I know they arent commerically available.

Phhhhhhhht, Jeff.

I don't know why you're trying to pick a fight, but I have neither the time nor the interest to participate. The fact is, as I originally stated, that L. triangulum has been recorded eating each and every one of the listed items in the wild. And if the OP wishes to try alternate food sources for his snakes, then starting with known food items would be a sensible place to begin.

And I'm still laughing about your claim that slugs are poisonous.....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

3 adult milks....

baby birds....

x 20 weeks

3 x 20 = 60 x 3 each a week = 180 so lets say 200 baby finches

each finch lays 4 eggs at a pop every couple? few weeks....

4 into 200 is 50 clutches....let's say only 5 clutches a yr =10 female finches..

but they lay more I bet....

....?...correct....

....just saying............
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......JY

If you were only interested in eggs I'd say your right. You want baby birds, how long does it take to get a finch to fuzzy size?? A few weeks? That seriously cuts into your egg production. Double that estimate, say 20 females. Now how many males do you need? Man, thats ALOT of noise and non sense for 3 little milks.

......ok....they all won't hatch ...

I got it better.....

0 females....

just sneak into my back neighbors yard at night every week and steal some baby pigeons?....he has 150 I bet and really doesn't do anything with them.....let them fly and roll.....
(actually he would give me them or sell really cheaply)...

.....birds stink....

finches.....find others that have them ...alot of them...I knew a guy with HUNDREDSSS....they are cheap....I bet $2 out of egg...
($3 fledged)...
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......JY

>>each finch lays 4 eggs at a pop every couple? few weeks....
>>
>>4 into 200 is 50 clutches....let's say only 5 clutches a yr =10 female finches..

Society finches lay on average 4-8 eggs per clutch. Incubation is 12-13 days, and babies fledge at roughly 2 weeks. At fledging, babies will be roughly the same size as adults.

I only mentioned societies because Jeff was concerned about size issues. If you want something a bit larger, then button quail are a good bet. Buttons can lay in the neighborhood of 200-300 eggs per year, with incubation lasting 16 days. Babies start at bumblebee size, but reach sexual maturity by about 6 weeks.

And if you want something a bit bigger than that, then Coturnix quail are a good bet. Like buttons they can lay a coupla hundred eggs a year, with quick incubation and maturity. And they are, like buttons, very easy to keep in confined spaces.

And if you want something a bit bigger than THAT, then you could always go with bantam chickens. Bantam leghorns, like the quail, can easily lay more than 200 eggs per year. But, being chickens, they'll require a bit more space to maintain than the quail will!

So if someone wants to try alternate food sources, birds like finches or quail or even banties can be a good bet.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

The real question is.....do you want to keep upwards of a couple hundred birds to keep 3 milks or maybe you want to think about letting them go and finding a suitable pet. I think you are stoking the wrong fire again,LMAO.

>>The real question is.....do you want to keep upwards of a couple hundred birds to keep 3 milks or maybe you want to think about letting them go and finding a suitable pet. I think you are stoking the wrong fire again,LMAO.

Do you keep a couple hundred mice alive to keep 3 milks? Or do you simply keep mice in the freezer? You wouldn't need any more birds than you would mice, depending on which bird species you chose and the size of your snakes.

And the decision isn't about what **I** want or what **you** want. It's about what somebody ELSE wants to do in order to keep THEIR snakes alive. They get to make the decision, not you.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

If the unabomber comes here asking how to light a fuse will you tell him how or will you have an educated opinion and try to talk him out of it?? Sometimes I have to wonder.....I buy mice as needed, the poster in question can do the same. There is a reason why no one has done it your way. Figure it out.

>>If the unabomber comes here asking how to light a fuse will you tell him how or will you have an educated opinion and try to talk him out of it?? Sometimes I have to wonder.....I buy mice as needed, the poster in question can do the same. There is a reason why no one has done it your way. Figure it out.

LOL!! Now the poor OP is the Unabomber, just because he asked for alternative food items?? My, Jeff, you ARE desperate. ROFL!!

Get real, Jeff. It's actually fairly common to feed birds to snakes. In fact, you can buy quail in various sizes from Rodentpro for $0.34-$0.84 apiece -- or chicks for $0.25 apiece. There's nothing terribly radical or evil about the idea. If YOU don't like the thought, then by all means don't do it -- but for heaven's sake, don't belittle someone else just because they want to think outside of your tidy little box, either.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Ok this has been one rollercoaster of a ride with this question so Im going to try a few things--if it works great if not then I know a nice little spot where they wont be disturbed. Now if I can just get them to hold still long enuff to take some decent pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On this forum a good arguement is almost encouraged. We try to keep it from being personal, and NO you arent the unabomber,LMAO. I hope everything works out for both you and the milks.

Good luck finding an alt. food source for your easterns, please keep us posted. I've had luck with baby garter snakes in the past.

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Joe

right IN the mouse nest almost....LOL...

locality on the first one? (state)....

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......JY

>>right IN the mouse nest almost....LOL...

Looking at the wide belly on that snake, I would call it an EX mouse nest....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Both are MA snakes that were photographed and released. The first did have a huge meal in his body in relation to his size. I'm guessing a small snake folded over in him. The second was also a lot brighter red than the photo looks. I didn't have my camera at the time and it was taken with a cell phone.

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Joe

Sweet photo---

If it wont talk live or ft pinks after a week or two,release it where it was found.Go find another one that will eat pinks. If you cant use pinks then you should not have milk snakes.
If this seems rude so be it. I feel someone here has to tell you this

Rinsed scat from a wc subadult eastern milk showed keeled scale skin from its last meal

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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

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Doug L

take not talk.....fires my typist.
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.
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Hires a new one

Wow what a big snake you have Doug
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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

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Doug L

I like the new one.

Hey Doug, I love your pics. But remember that, according to Jeff, stomach contents (and I presume scat?) don't prove anything about diet -- and, also according to Jeff, ringnecks are poisonous. I hope that poor milk survived that nasty old poisonous ringneck!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Snake poo! Could that skin have come from the milk itself? Maybe a remnant in a old snake bag? Snake digestive enzymes being what they are, you are telling me that a shed skin survived a trip through? I can see a piece of unshed skin with maybe some sinew and bone attached not being digested but shed skin will evaporate quickly in any gut. Nice try, but I aint buying that one.
BTW, I second your thought on wc milks. Either they eat what you want to feed them or they should be released.
FYI, I am not the only one who has fed ringnecks to milks and had them die. Again, one here and one there are definately eaten but they are poisonous and should be avoided. Now when you are in the field finding milks do you ever find say green, brown, red belly, or earth snakes under cover with milks? Not hardly. But you DO see ringnecks all the time. Coincidence?

WTF? when a snake eats another snake what comes out the other end is NOT a shed skin.It is/was the live undigested skin of the meal snake. Yes that came from the poop glob a few days after the snake was caught. When caught the snake had a visible lump.I was curious.

This may be that snake i'm not sure though.It also was released cause it would not take pinks.
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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

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Doug L

That does not look like living skin to me. It looks like shed skin. Shed skin should be easily digested. Living skin undigested without anything else attatched?? Urates?? Why?? It makes no sense, nothing personal. Do you understand my logic? If I posted that would you say it was shed skin or digested live skin? I dont see your arguement.

jeff that dark stuff and skin came from the poop.I am not making any logic judgements.I took a pic of the scat is all.It had keeled scales..Next time our snakes eat snake lets see what we can find out.Ill let you know what I find.
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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

--< : < > < > < > < > < >~~~

Doug L

Looking at snake scat! Lol! Says, wife with growing concerns....
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

snake skins can and will make it through the digestive tract intact.....had a baby greeri eat it's skin at least 2 times after shedding and pink rolled onto it....skin came out and could be stretched out again....weird as all helll....

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......JY

Baby snakes digestive tracts arent producing the acids a adults are. I have seen mouse tails come out pretty much the same way they went in. I would be more skeptical on a wc adult though. I promise I'm not just arguementative.

...I'd bet them tails came out back the up end not out the back end.............

......yep.....

........think of their poor little butt hole if it came out the back door?.....ooooouch....

...think about it....

???

........same fluids......baby weaker?...I'll get a baby mamba...you try the theory....littler is weaker....

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......JY

Actually Jeff is correct.Many snakes will not eat adult ringneck.They will jump on the eggs and the hatchlings though.
The snake pictured here would NOT eat ringnecks or garters but did eat worm and brown snakes.I released her but only after she lost weight and I had to.I should have released her sooner.I found a speckled king a few years ago that regurged a adult ringneck.Garters will be eaten but they must taste bad also.That musk stuff works.I wonder if milks/kings will eat water snakes.
YUCK those things stink.

You can see why I didn't want to release this adult female eastern milk she was smokin' clean.
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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

--< : < > < > < > < > < >~~~

Doug L

I wouldn't eat ringnecks either, but that doesn't mean they're poisonous....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Jeff may be right here. Somebody has to do a study and it won't be me.

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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

--< : < > < > < > < > < >~~~

Doug L

Some anecdotal info is 95% accurate and I dont think any of us want to sacrifice any of our prized captives to prove anyone wrong...even if its me!

Not sure if they are poisonous, but they are venomous and so are garters and browns(dekays).
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>Not sure if they are poisonous, but they are venomous and so are garters and browns(dekays).

Yet, oddly enough, even Jeff admits that milks will eat browns.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Oddly enough, plenty of people actually agree with me about ringnecks. Derrrrrrrr

>>Oddly enough, plenty of people actually agree with me about ringnecks. Derrrrrrrr

Hey, "plenty of people" still think that the Earth is flat. That doesn't make it true.

Cmon, Jeff. You come on here boldly claiming that SLUGS are poisonous...yet you expect me to believe that ringnecks are also poisonous, just because you say it is so?? Not bloody likely. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I don't know. But I'm sure as heck not gonna take your word for it.

As you so sweetly asked me a few posts ago -- "Where on earth did you find your information??" I provided you with several good references when you asked. Let's see what YOU'VE got.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

great stuff you two!..HAHAHA!

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Float like a butterfly, sting like a.....hmmm....king cobra?

Nonono, I've got it....float like a butterfly, sting like a poisonous slug?? LOL
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

My proof was a dead snake. Chuck had dead snakes. Other people have sick or dead snakes. No, I didnt need a AMAZONDOC to figure it out. I'd say its a tad more proof posetive than citing a 40 year old paper who may or may not know how to do stomach content analysis. The OP was looking for feeding alternatives not a 40 year old laundry list. You didnt even favor one thing over another, I think he was asking for an opinion not a trivia question! LOL, next!

>>My proof was a dead snake. Chuck had dead snakes. Other people have sick or dead snakes.

LOL!

That's not even a good try, Jeff.

I've had a snake eat a **mouse** and die. So have "other people". Shall we therefore conclude that MICE are poisonous?? LOL!!

I accept your tacit admission that you have absolutely no actual evidence to back up your claim. Of course, that comes as no surprise....especially after that thing about the slugs....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I'll give you the last word. You are right, feed ringnecks to all of your milks. Go ahead, I double dare you. LMAO. I just suggest to anyone ELSE that they not do it. You, I WANT you to feed your milks ringnecks. Prove me wrong.

>>I'll give you the last word. You are right, feed ringnecks to all of your milks. Go ahead, I double dare you. LMAO. I just suggest to anyone ELSE that they not do it. You, I WANT you to feed your milks ringnecks. Prove me wrong.

Tsk tsk tsk, Jeff. You should know better. You're the one who made the claim, so you're the one who gets to prove it.

As for evidence of milks eating ringnecks without harm, just check out those pics that snake_bit posted. That's a heckuva lot more evidence than YOU have come up with so far....

And hey, as long as we're on the subject of proof....howsabout some evidence about those nasty poisonous slugs, too??? LOL!!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

all of us around here have always known ringnecks are poisonous....

no idea who started it....we just know it....

probably my one friend that studied venomous stuff bigtime....

......I'll try it....I gotta get a big milk and some ringnecks first......

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......JY

She is was very clean! Did you try Flagyl on her? It does wonders for appetites.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I should have tryed that but this big mama is just as clean and just as pretty

Her new boy friend from the same spot.

She eats like crazy (not poisonous slug) and layed a dozen eggs last year

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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

--< : < > < > < > < > < >~~~

Doug L

"She eats like crazy (not poisonous slug) and layed a dozen eggs last year "

So youve had no problem with slugs then? And very nice close up shots-beautiful animals.

she eats adult f/t mice
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"He's down in the basement staring at his snakes " My Wife

--< : < > < > < > < > < >~~~

Doug L

Doug, you have a top secret Slug ranch in your basement dont you? I mean a DOC really thinks milks eat slugs so thats what they gotta eat right? I mean if he read it on the internet it has to be true! ROFLMAO!!

Somebody better tell these snakes that Jeff said slugs are poisonous...he said it, so it must be true -- right???

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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Keep it clean! I know you are secretly breeding ALBINO non poisonous slugs but I'm still willing to bet you cant find a pic of a milk eating one! YUK.

>>Keep it clean! I know you are secretly breeding ALBINO non poisonous slugs but I'm still willing to bet you cant find a pic of a milk eating one! YUK.

I'll find a pic of a milk eating a slug just as soon as you find a pic of **any** snake being poisoned by a ringneck.

I did actually see a pic of an albino slug, btw. It wasn't getting eaten by a snake, but it was interesting to see anyway!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Just tell my how to take a pic of POISON. Ridiculous.

>>Just tell my how to take a pic of POISON. Ridiculous.

Hey, you can't even provide a single reference so far. I'm just trying to give you alternative means to support your claim. Is it **my** fault that you can't come up with anything??
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I have referenced ME. Other people have referenced themselves. No need to cite anecdotal out of date literature on this one. Healthy milk plus ringneck could =dead snake. Send me your "Hondos" and I'll write a paper on it. Doc, JFK didnt die of natural causes either and I dont need a autopsy to know it! If it helps you I did write the report that said the sun would come up tomorrow, LMAO!

>>I have referenced ME.

Yup. And if YOU said it, then it MUST be true.

ROFLMAO!!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Please, take a pic and prove me wrong! Something tells me no matter how hard you rail against it you will avoid doing just that.

>>Please, take a pic and prove me wrong! Something tells me no matter how hard you rail against it you will avoid doing just that.

Snake_bit already provided pics quite neatly proving you wrong about ringnecks, and I already provided pics proving you wrong about slugs as well.

And I don't plan on feeding my milks any snakes at all, sorry to disappoint ya.

If you ever do come up with any actual evidence of either slugs or ringnecks being poisonous, do let us know. I'm sure that none of us here will be holding our breaths. Of course, we're all laughing too hard to hold our breaths anyway.....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I especially like that blue tongued milk snake!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

nice shots.....

ringneck.......I wouldn't have.....

.......I threw a thayeri in with a red last night...the red keeps looking at it....thayeri is so stupid, she don't know what's going on anyways....(thayeri,too dumb to eat or drink unless you put it in her mouth or put her into water bowl,seriously)....try a new red tonight....

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......JY