Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I myself cant figure out what the difference in parking off the road for photos, arachnids, or collecting is. I was searched a total of 2 times in two nites until they won and I came home. First of all I was ticketed on Juno Rd saturday morning walking a cut with a small midwest tongs snake hook. The wardens passed me and stopped at my vehicle. As I approached them one asked what I was doing. Like a dumb a$$, I replied looking for lepidus. He then asked me if I knew it was illegal to collect on public land. I replied no sir I didnt know that the law had changed or was suddenly being enforced. I am a professional fire fighter with IAFF plates on my truck and that usually spawns professional curteosy but not this time. They searched my truck finding pillow cases and lights. Then they told me it was legal to photograph herps, collect inverts, but no collecting. He said he appreciated my patience and was writing me a citation for illegally hunting on a public right of way. I was upset but very compliant and respectful. Later that nite I drove to loma alta where I was searched by a sheriffs deputy and given a verbal warning. I was walking a cut with a UV light and a deli cup when he approached me. It's just a weird deal, what do they think we are doing with the herps of texas besides protecting the species through captive propogation and research. It's strange how we are so unwanted in the trans pecos but not really bothered in east and north texas. Oh and they mentioned the forum so they know when and where we will be. I wish I had read up on the forum B4 wasting time and money going out west and getting the boot. Is there anything we can do to make our country free again? Im ashamed to be a veteran and taxpayer in this country these days and its b.s. that we pay the salaries of TPWD Officers thru hunting and fshing licenses only to be ticketed for conserving wildlife... I dont know if I will ever herp west texas again. It scared the crap out of my fiance who was with me on her first herping trip out west.

Very few tickets have been written under this law-you were an exception. IMO, you got a ticket because basically you confessed to hunting on the right of way. It is not illegal to walk cuts, carry herping paraphenalia, etc-or to observe or photograph.

Want to work for change? Join Herp Conservation Unlimited.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Yea I agree, I used to herp the transpecos every month in the early 90s till 2003. I then kinda slacked of due to working two jobs. I just remember when game wardens were just concerned that you were poaching white tailed deer, and were happy to tell you when and where snakes were moving. There was even a warden that had a nice collection of alterna. It's just crazy that Texas would rather a snake be run over than a herper get out and move it off the road without a permit. The good old days out west are over. It's hard to believe your breaking the law if you collect an aterna off of a cut. Just the government slowly making it a communist country. But yea I agree, I should have reread all the B.S. laws and permit info and scanned the forum for info. The officers that ticketed me were very very polite and even friendly. One actually seemed a little embarassed that such a law and such regulations have become so technical that you have to have a freakin lawyer interpret for you. It's just not worth my job to go out and have do what I have done for 26 yrs. I will just make the drive to Arizona from now on.

Its like the splendida morph below. Beautiful snake but TPWD would rather it be scraped off the road by a vulture than collected by a breeder. Makes no sense.

(((TPWD would rather it be scraped off the road by a vulture than collected by a breeder.)))

Maybe vultures are considered semi - raptors in Texas......????
So that's why they have this crazy law - road bait for the raptors!

(Owls, Red-tailed hawks and eagles are also known scavengers of road kill)

Sorry, but I'm just havin' too much fun with this......This is just too easy......
My new name for this law: Road bait for raptors!

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

what's going on with HCU's site? I can't get into the forums for a long time now and the contact link goes back to Jeff.
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Steve W.

I don't know, Steve. I was just on the forums yesterday, and I seem to be able to get to the site fine from here....
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

You can hunt all the raptors you want even on the right of way!
If you want to be legal, (and avoid tickets), leave the snake hook at home and just put some bird cages in your vehicle and go for it!!! (Hawks DO rest among the rocks at night, just like lizards do.) The burden of proof will be on THEM when it comes to what you are REALLY doing. All you need is a hunting license!

And if you are a TPWD official reading this: I will be in Val Verde and Terrell counties from the 22nd until the 27th of June to do some road cruising at night, primarily on HWY 90. I will be in a 2007 black Chevrolet Pick-up with VA plats. I will also be video taping the event ESPECIALLY if I get hassled by ANYONE out there. I am a friendly guy, but I DO want the rest of the world to see just how much effort Texas will put into harassing regular citizens versus cleaning up the borders, where the REAL criminals are: Drug dealers, killers, gangs, ILLEGAL aliens, etc. I hate to sound so mean, but we all know how powerful video can be in today's world. It speaks sooooo much louder than any words. Just ask Rodney King!!! Maybe when I get some good videos of the actual process of getting checked, searched, hassled late at night, then it will open up some eyes of the politicians here in TEXAS!

For the rest of you, please say Hi if you see me out there, I almost fogot: My truck also has a big bumper sticker on the tailgate that says "Alternas Rule!"
I will probably be staying at the motel in Sanderson for four nights/days. Let me know if you see anything crawling during this time. And I will do the same. I will also share my videos with you all to let you see what it's like out here AND what it's like to get harassed sometimes, lol!

Here's a pic of an Alterna I found near Langtry back in 06':

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Exactly my point, innocent citezens are paying there salaries by their b.s. permit fees and licenses, if we are collecting illegally and its legal to collect insects without a license then why the hell are we all buying hunting licenses we cant even use? If everyone refused to buy their licenses and other permits then they may just lay a few of those guys off.

I like that idea Mike!!

Now you're talkin!!!! Very nice post!!! If this happens, put it on youtube so the world can see how much effort they are spending on something that is so dam*ed menial!! While they are worrying about this, illegals and Afghan soldiers and GOD knows who else are plotting to destroy the U.S. I am sure it is safer to screw with Herpers than it is to risk your life for something as measely as protecting this county's borders (sigh). Yes, TPWD has been teaming up with the Border Patrol and other law enforcement, but you would never know it by posts like Mikes. More power to ya Blue King!

Carrying the hook is what did you in because it(arguably) shows intent to hunt. Hunting is defined(in part) as persue with intent to capture.

I think if your hook had been stored in the car with the rest of your collecting equipment you would probably have just gotten a verbal warning. It is not illegal to collect on private property so mere possession of collecting equipment isn't enough to justify a citation. Especially if you are on vacation and intend at some point to legally access or attempt to legally access private property, for the purpose of hunting.

I do greatly sympatize with you and I totally agree that it makes no sense to prohibit collecting a nonprotected herp simply because it happens to be on a public right of way. The fact that roadside populations are already at high risk of being run over and killed anyway obviously makes the roadside the most eco-sensible place to collect from. The roadban is a waste of taxpayer money IMHO.

The gentleman from Colorado only had a flashlight and a teenage son with him and he was stopped and harrassed. When LE saw the
hook/stick in his car, he went through the spiel of collecting on private land, etc. Apparently,dWayne correct me if I'm wrong, LE told him they'd rather him have the hook/stick in his hand than his vehicle...still trying to figure this one out.

That is bunk and it is called BAITING. It makes it easier for them to issue a citation. I would leave the hooks and sticks at home! I keep telling people this... Necessito leave sticks at home-ito. (since folks seem to understand spanglish better)

StevenX

I think alot of it was the fact he was form out of state, on the other hand, look what happened to Mike. I really think people should be communicating off of this forum. This gives these BONEHEADS ammunition and something else to go out and do to justify their lonely existance.

But I would suggest if you have time to take the ride that you plead not guilty and fight the ticket to see where it leads. Since you did not in fact collect any herps and did not have any herps there is a good chance you can get the ticket dropped. However, like was mentioned the "looking for Lepidus" comment might be taken as confession, but if you never stated what you would do when you found one it would give you ground to mount a defense.... after all you would need to look for it to get the picture, and I use tongs for scolopendra and the gear in the vehicle is legal because you can still herp private property.

Just sharing thoughts.....
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Lance is right, you need to hire a lawyer and fight the ticket.
If you lose in the local, appeal to the county and have your attorney cite selective enforcement for grounds (see Terrell county).

If you need help with $$ e-mail me and I'll see if we can take up a collection. It should only cost between 1 and 2 k, but it will set a mighty nice precedent.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Yea thats what I plan on doing just to see where it leads. Its just nearly impossible to prove I was collecting since I had no container on my person, just the small hook that has stayed in my vehicles for 10 years, I dont go anywhere without it. We will c where it leads since I have TPWD officers that are on my swift water team that want to testify as character whitnesses. And I plan on joining HCU this week.

Should have joined a long time ago Mike!! Where have you been man????

He could say he was looking for every Herp under the sun and it would not matter. The fact that he did not have snakes in his possession at the time of the confrontation is all he needs to be worried about. If he had seven snake hooks it should not matter either. They could be his walking sticks or even his weapon of choice against any stray illegals coming up from Mexico. Follow my logic???? These "enforcement officers" need to concentrate on the important stuff, which I mentioned already on this forum.

Actually all he need worry about is the fact that the officer did not observe him actually collecting a snake from the road. I carry snakes all the time in my vehicle for a variety of reasons-does that mean I should be subject to ticketing?
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Did you have a hunting license? Did they ask for it?
Did you say you intended to collect a lepidus?

Sorry to hear of the troubles.

Again what did I say on the email from Nathan W. to everyone else...

Texas doesnt really need tourists... We have a steady stream of illegals to keep our tills full.

BW,

StevenX

You got THAT right, Steven.....
Plenty of illegals coming in through our porous, non-existent borders, and (IF caught AT ALL), they don't get ANY fines at all - just a free ride in an air conditioned SUV, some cold drinks, food, a bed to sleep on and then taken back across the border so they can play the game again..so they can get a free ride in an air conditioned SUV, some cold drinks, food a bed to sleep on and then taken back across the border so they can play the game again..so they can get a free ride ........ . . . . .
While the rest of us legal, tax paying, license paying, country - serving, mortality-on-the-highway-reducing, non-trouble causing individuals get to pay even more money thanks to ridiculous fines imposed on us through USELESS laws written by people that can't tell the difference between a snake and a white-tailed deer.........

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

They need "tourists". This will be the 3rd year in a row that I won't be there do to this law. I average $2000.00 per trip and when you minus the airfare I actually spend about $1500.00 in the state of Texas per trip locally where I would hunt. That might not sound like a lot of money but when you add it up over three years it's quite a lot of money for the locals. Then times that by all the others that won't make the trip to be hassled either and it's a ton of revenue lost. Most people won't make the trip back to fight a ticket if they don't live close enough. Most will not add that expense or have the time to do so. As an out of stater I did what I could and still do by making phone calls and such. You guys that live there are the key to getting this overturned. You have voting power and that is what's needed most.
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Steve W.

You're right, Steve-it's the out-of-staters who are really being discouraged by this, and it is they who spend the really big money in the Trans-Pecos. Multiply your spending by at least several hundred others per year. Law enforcement seems, in many cases, to have singled out non-Texas herpers for harassment.

If I owned a business out there, I'd be raising hell with my local game wardens and Sheriff dept., as well as TPW and my state representatives!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Again I think this has been done in Sanderson. The Sheriff or Deputies is not going to turn a blind eye, but I believe they understand that local business is impacted when hobbyist are hassled. The town has engaged LE in conversation during the off season from what I understand. (per Talks with Roudhouse owner)

I dont know how other towns feel about us...

BW,

StevenX

The ROW ban is still enforced as the law is written in Sanderson, however you are not likely to be run out of town for being out at night with a flashlight and a camera. LE seemed very respectful and did not use the new law as an excuse to bully people....

They will also enforce all laws about your motor vehicle as was proven by one ticket while we were there for stopping in the lane of traffic, so as a note please be sure to get off to the shoulder before you "park" on highway 90.

As for being on the shoulder on 90 it was advised that hazard lights be used, but this has always led to confused motorist stopping to offer assistance. It is a nice Texan thing to do, but not needed. I tweaked that recommendation a bit and would turn on my right blinker any time I was on the shoulder to make sure other motorist did not worry about me pulling out on them.

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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

And in my original post said that they are enforcing the laws.

The right blinker is the polite thing to do. It doesnt cause confusion and helps direct others late at night.

BW,

Steven Owens

The deputies in Sanderson were beyond cool...just asked me, yes asked me, to make sure I was far enough off the road for safety's sake. Val Verde sounds like a different story though. As well as down in Brewster.

Yep. Those areas don't get it yet do they Maakie??

I did talk to the cafe owners at comstock, they didnt even know herpers are their bread and butter in summer. She said I was the only snake hunter that had come in... I just laughed.

That is what some of them are doing! It is being done! Believe me!

When I read about it on the gov web site it said the proposed law wouldnt affect local economy which is BS.. We support comstock and langtry, and our great friend roy at the outback.

I agree. They also said it would not cost any extra to enforce yet those patrols at night take gas and cause wear and tear on vehicles and equipment, not to mention the wardens might be getting overtime just being on duty at night.

The whole thing stinks from beginning to end. The stated reason for the law was that it was neccessary "in order to prevent certain persons from collecting herps from the roads and right of ways". I have paraphrased it but that is an accurate representation of what was stated.

That is what's known as circular reasoning, ie. it is neccessary to make a law prohibiting collecting from the road in order to prevent collecting from the road. It gives no reason why collecting from the road might be harmful. It the same as saying we need to make a law against bouncing a ball because it is neccessary to prevent people from bouncing balls. The statement actually contains no indication whatsoever as to why bouncing a ball might be harmful.

I didnt know they were inforcing such a weird law so when he asked what I was doing I said looking for lepidus, he didnt even know what a lep was. I showed him a pic and then he asked if i had the license which I had. They were very professional about the whole thing so I hate to call it harassment, the stupid law itself is what makes me nauseated.

But the fact that a trained officer in TP&W is sent out to enforce a new law or regulation without any guidance on how to properly identify the wildlife involved is not a shock to me. The same issue has come up on the dealer permits where things like Honduran Milksnakes and California Kingsnakes getting lumped in as "native" because they do not want to invest resources in training the officers to know the difference between native and non-native subspecies of popular animals.

I think a huge weakness in things at TP&W on herp related issues is there actual understanding of things verses certain perceptions they tend to have. I keep hearing the same old story about native snakes worth thousands of dollars each and that herpers are all out there collecting these natural resources to line bank accounts..... it is the other way around where you spends thousands to find an animal worth far far less than what you invested to get it..... It is cheaper and easier to just purchase a captive animal and raise it to a healthy adult, people out herping are doing it for passion not dollars.

Part of what we need to do for the long term is to give help TP&W a better understanding of herps as a resource to manage and of us as a group of people interested in that resource.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

They don't give a rats @ss about snakes or snake hunters. The border region is a war zone and we are in the way. Game Wardens in the border region are spending more time on Homeland Security and border issues than Game management issues.

All herpers need to see this from a LE perspective. If you want to get the road back - every herper needs to do what they are asking us to do and hunt private property. If they have to spend the time and resources to manage that they will wish we were back on the roads.

Additionally, constituents (supporters), tax payers (land owners), and voters (district residents) are the folks with clout.

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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

My first thought is that, once they get us on private land, they'll just ignore us-like they used to.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

>>My first thought is that, once they get us on private land, they'll just ignore us-like they used to.

Mute point really, it'll never happen. However, tp&w simply do not have the man power to do those checks. That is why it falls on border patrol and county sheriff so often, and they are getting PO'd. I said if EVERYONE hunted private land we force them to rethink that strategy. Don't hold your breath for that to happen.

The border is front line on the WAR on terror, and the war on drugs, immigration, etc. Everyone will get checked out, even if you aren't confronted face to face you are being watched, and in some instances recorded. They have eye in the sky, IR and other surveillance techniques.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Joe what is "eye in the sky"? Are you refering to helicopters? Back in the good old days when all TPWD worried about was you having a license and not spotlighting the cuts, we had a warden swoop down on us seemingly out of nowhere. We concluded that he had been parked with his lights off on top of the cut we had just shined. It was a mild encounter, all he did was check our license and politely inform us that we needed to stop shining and walk the cuts instead.

I would expect with the federal interest in the border area these days that satellites, drones and aircraft are in play to monitor things.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

I have no doubt that you get recorded, called in, or followed from afar 5 times for every time you get talked to.. and I get talked to every night in some locals.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Yeah the notion that we get hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a grayband is persistent. Frequently when I am asked why I am looking for snakes people(not just TPWD but people in general) seem to have a hard time believing that I am collecting only for myself. They think that I must be selling them.

The odd contradiction is that they would easily believe in someone, somewhere else(the unseen customer) who is somehow willing to pay thousands of dollars for a snake I collected but it is unbelievable that I myself would spend thousands of dollars to collect that same snake. This is certainly an odd leap of logic.

And so f*ing what if you were or are selling them Aaron??? This is why the good ol' State of Tejas makes us get a hutning license and permits! You can do whatever the hell you want to do as long as you have those permits that we are paying these jolers for! Don't feel as if you are doing anything wrong. The ol' scare tactic from the state but once again!

I have sold wc snakes but I stopped somewhere around 2000. I am not against it so long as harvests can be managed at sustainable levels. For many species managing them would not even be difficult.

Collecting to sell is just something that I no longer do because it just isn't worth my time anymore. I have a full time job, I only make 1 or 2 trips to TX and I don't want the hassle(for me) of picking up stuff while I could be hunting for my main target, alterna. Then I have to take care of it, bring it back home, advertize it, etc.

I wasn't trying to condemn commercial or hobby selling of herps. I was only pointing out the irony of officers and average residents who simultaniously believe a customer would pay thousands for a snake, yet seem unable to phathom a hobbyist spending a similar amount to catch one. I have had this conversation with several people, mostly BP and they just cannot seem to wrap their heads around me travelling to TX just to catch a snake. Yet they have a firm belief that I could sell that same snake for hundreds of dollars.

I've made 3 trips out there this year totaling 6 nights and have had nothing but good encounters with BP and no interactions with LE. My last night out there I was walking a West Sanderson cut when I turned and saw flashing lights behind my truck. The border patrol guard met me half way and asked if i was looking for "critters". I told him yes I was photographing animals and he was great. He asked if I had seen anything then pointed out a tarantula by his truck if I wanted to photograph it. He asked how much further west I would be going and said he would call ahead and let the others know what I was doing and to leave me alone. I appreciate what these guys are doing and thank them when i do talk with them. On the way back to the Outback I did pass a BP pulled off the road on east Sanderson who was talking to a game warden. They both turned and followed me into town but never stopped me. I turned into the hotel and they both passed by. The guys at the 277 checkpoint asked me to come back by if I got any pics of a grayband they would like to see one. One admitted to being a herper back in the day. lol. It seemed more relaxed this year than the last 2 yrs. previous. Maybe I was just lucky.
I do agree with Joe about getting on private property. I'm hoping to buy a small place out there in the next year or so.

Chris Drake

There's a special place where people spend money to lose money...happens everyday. It's called Las Vegas. The concept of spending money for a vacation shouldn't be hard to accept. People spend money just to go hiking, right? Well, west Texas is hiking with a cherry on top. (dWayne's RR cherry, that is.)