Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-06-21/news/os-cricket-farm-bankruptcy-20100621_1_lucky-lure-cricket-farm-virus-bug

Were they a large scale breeder? I never heard of them...I just wonder how many others may be affected. It's rather unsettling.

They were a rather large farm but mostly regional. The largest shut down is probably Top Hat in Michigan.

http://www.tophatcrickets.com/2010ShortageINFO.htm

Plus pretty much all the farms in CA.

It's unlikely that any cricket farm will be in operation 6 months from now unless someone comes up with a way of killing the virus. The Europeans were unable to overcome the virus 8 years ago so it is unlikely we will either in the short term.

Is there any Europeans here that can comment on the status of House Crickets in Europe today?

I used to order from Top Hat...I didn't know they went under. Very alarming,I must say.

I ordered from cricket factory 2 weeks ago, 500- 1 weekers and 500-- 2 weekers sent ups got them in 5 days and half were dead. Cricket farm is in california and i'm in wisconsin. The crickets were not exposed to cold temps in transit either. Called the guy and told him and he said he would send me another 500 out on mon.(june 21), haven't gotten them yet, evidently didn't send them fed-ex so they'll probably be all dead this time... GGGGRHHHH!!

Not a happy situation...5 days in transit,sitting on hOT trucks is what killed them. Not good service for sure. Also,the crix need nutrition and moisture to survive,but I do believe the combination and especially the heat killed them.

You should use another supplier. Most are shipping next day air because of the hot temps. You could try lllreptile.com if shipping out of CA works for you.

Crickets are not very durable.....it is all about the roach.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

lol. You and I are just diametrically opposed on this. I'd be surprised if I lose much more than 1% of my crickets for reasons other than being eaten. I just don't understand roach lovers, crickets are soooo much better.

Well, I am trying to raise my own crickets and I have week old pinheads doing very well. They should be feeding size when my first clutch hatches and we will see. I feel the need to feed baby dragons crickets because they still are the backbone of the reptile hobby, and I want to make sure when a baby goes to a new home, there are no feeding issues.

I do lobsters and dubia, and really can't say that crickets have a single quality that is superior to roaches. When it comes to buying, crickets are cheaper, but thats about it. For the price of shipping and handling one order, I can feed all my roaches for months. At the end of this season, I am setting up 4 mega colonies that will be left to breed all winter, and I should be cricket free next year. For someone with a pet dragon or two, a small rubbermaid tote can produce all the bugs you will ever need. I am also going to try some new to the market species of roaches to see how they work out. E. distanti is one I already have.

My observations so far. Crickets make noise even during the day, roaches do not.
Even in the dry desert, crickets do smell, and roaches don't.
Crickets max out at maybe 1 to 1.5 inches, roaches max
out at about 2.5 for dubia and 1.5 for lobsters and weigh
5 times as much, leading me to believe there is more in
the shell.
I have to buy crickets, which I can't do in the west any more
My roach colonies cost almost nothing to maintain and
are little or no work.
My Observations have been, my adults don't like crickets,
everybody loves roaches.

The single biggest contribution to the crickt virus, from what I have been told, and some of the people are research scientists who understand immunology and biological security, is the use of USED egg crate. Used egg crate have held eggs, and have been handled and god knows what else. Since egg crate burns really nicely, there are sprays sold to make them flame retardant. How do I know a cricket procucer using used crate isn't using ones that are chemically treated? My egg crates are recycled paper, but are brand new/untreated, and I know how clean my enclosures are. I did visit a big cricket producer once, and I have to say, it was so nasty I scratched myself until I blead. Flies and bugs everywhere. Flies carry disease, and there are no flies around my roaches.

Based on the above information..............VIVA LA ROACH! :O)

That is my point of view, and I have to say it is working really well for me. Not to mention saving me lots of money I can reinvest into my husbandry.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

Well what works for the individual is always the best.

I think crickets are better nutrition wise if well gutloaded. They don't have the shell roaches do.

But the worst downside is that roach escapees live very long and are very unacceptable to most. Crickets have a short lifespan so escapees don't live long and I don't really have an issue with a cricket walking along the floor. There just needs to be other people than reptile people in people's lives. To a woman a roach is a roach and gross regardless of whether it's a feeder or not. lol.

Oh and only adult crickets make noise and you get used to it anyway.

Believe me if I could get away from crickets I would. All live food now that you mention it. Just gotta love my Iguana and Uromastyx.

ROTFLMMFAO!

I am here to tell you, more guys get "girlie" over roaches than any of the women I know.

The lobsters are very soft, and I do gut load them as well. So far, crickets are EZ. My problem is that I cannot keep the soil evenly moist all the time because it is so dry here. Dry dirt kills the eggs. I think i have that beat. My plan is to use crickets for babies and once they get to hold back or larger, switch them to roaches. My colonies are not big enough to supplie all my baby needs. I am now going to start another superworm colony just to keep me in minisupers. Supers are too much work to raise for adult worms.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

What makes Supers too much work? I just started breeding my own supers 2 weeks ago to make myself more self sufficient. I don't have beetles yet, just pupae.

I thinik for the time it takes you to get adult worms they are not worth it. I am going to start a colony for mini supers, but they take forever to raise to adults. You have to force beetles, each adult only lays a limited number of eggs, so you need tons of them. I have a hard time keeping them hydrated because of the dryness of the desert. If you let them get thursty , they eat each othere. Compared to roaches, they are too high maintenence. I would rather just buy adults. Being said 1000 adults is the same price as 1000 minis, so i will raise my own. I have also cultured wax worms, and again itis easier to buy them. I may try them again this fall though. One day I had a container of hundreds, and what seemed like over night, there was nothing but mold. Have no idea what happend. Dry food and worms one day, next day the contiainer was soaking wet and moldy.

Roaches, look in the bins, if they have water crystals and food, your good to go. Yes you have to clean out the bottom of the bin every month or so, but so much easier to get a good healthy clean yeald.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

Something I am going to go after is mini mealworms. They are not like regular meal worms, but the problem is the beetles fly. One day I had a sweaterbox full, suddenly they were gone. I have now found them, They are in my roach colony. They are too small to fish out the worms, but are doing quite well in the same set up. I just have to use something with a screen lid, and I am going to use my waxworm kit container. It basically is a plastic candy jar with a vent. Mini supers are very small and are not all armored, so i think they will be great food for hatchlings. They are very expensive to buy. 1000 is like 1/8 up of worms. That is one feeding for baby season. It will be a while before I have a feedable colony going.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

I'm not really that concerned about the time. Especially if it's just start up time. It takes 5 weeks for Silkworms from when I start the eggs to when I have adult silks. It shouldn't take that long to grow baby supers into adult supers. And their food is way cheaper than Silk food.

Supers take way longer than silks. Silks grow based on how much food they consume. Supers live in their own food, and are no where near as fast.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

There is a very simple soloution that no one seems to be employing. BLACK CRICKETS DO NOT GET THE VIRUS. The Europeans went to them years ago, right before warning the American breeders who ignored the warning.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

So do the Europeans have black crix Mark ? I was under the impression that their crix were wiped out.

It only affects the house or brown cricket. Black crickets are unaffected. They did get wiped out. Then switched to the black.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

Europeans were simultaneously breeding the Banded Cricket and a Jamaican species as well as locusts. So it wasn't a problem for them to substitute with another species.

I don't think there is any commercial breeding of the black Field Crickets. I don't know exactly why but their life cycle is significantly different and longer than the house cricket. They may also not prduce the number of eggs in the same frequency as the house cricket. This may make them not viable commercially or it may be for another reason. There are probably about 10 cricket farms currently not producing in the US some for as long as 6 months, none seem to be considering Field Crickets so there must be a reason.

In the US that would be the only alternative as far a crickets go. It is not legal currently to bring in other non-native cricket species that would be more commercially viable alternatives.

There is a treatment using ozone. Some of the farms are already using ozone emitters to kill the virus. This same technique was also used in europe.

I think one of the reasons for europe not having so many acheta domestica anymore is because they have other options. If i was a cricket breeder I would much rather work with a more prolific, stronger species that doesn't make a lot of noise. Breeding acheta domestica could run the possibility of another wipe-out.

The companies that are still producing crickets in the US were already prepared for this. They knew it was coming.

Josh

I hope you're right. I am already making changes to reduce my cricket requirements, but I have some animals and species that don't eat anything but crickets and I have no idea how I will handle them.

They won't eat roaches?
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

I have a 3 year old dragon that cannot use any of his arms or legs so he pretty much lays on his stomach all day. He is 3 years old and only weighs 165. He always looks way too thin but is a very poor eater. He only will eat crickets for me now I don't know why. In the past he ate silkworms but won't touch them now.

I also have Trapelus Savignii's and they don't even eat salad. Just crickets. Full grown they only weigh about 35 grams.

I used to breed and keep Dubia's. Some of my dragons love them but some just won't eat them. Others didn't digest them well and they came out full of undigested parts.

People say they are safe because they can't infest your house. Well, that's not exactly true. I never heated my bins and they reproduced. They also have a longer life span than crix. A loose cricket is only annoying for a few weeks. When I had Dubia's I had to supervise or hand feed each dragon individually to make sure there were no escapees. It was just too time consuming with 25 dragons.

My primary food in Silkworms and I keep Supers as well. Silkworms are great but cause really wet stools when many are eaten. Egg laying females would be a huge mess if I fed them silkworms between clutches. So I only feed crickets to females, underweight, and sick animals. That adds up to about 10 animals or about 2K crix a week of various sizes.

I have the same problem. Most of my rhacodactylus, bavayia, and eurydactylodes will only eat crickets as far as insects.

Josh

My friend used to live in Arkansas and he said they sell those big black ones over there for fishing baits. I don't know if they are the same species as the ones they have in Europe. He said they are called field crickets. There are different species of field crickets in the U.S., so I don't know what species they sell over there. Very interesting, though! I wonder what the nutritional value of the field crickets is... I'm interested to know...

The problem is that we can only keep/breed field crickets that are native to our state. USDA will not have it otherwise, because is poses an agricultural risk. acheta domestica are the only exception.

The virus will eventually pass. Europe still has acheta domestica, so does canada. They are not completely wiped out.

Josh

Well the US if far from wiped out right now and Canada growers have been effected as well. The biggest problem is that in all likelyhood all the growers in North America will eventually have the virus. The question is can the growers afford to wait until the virus passes and then restart? As the article stated Lucky Lures sterilized and tried to restart 4 times without success. Top hat is trying the same thing but has been down for months so I can only assume that they have also been unsuccessful at restarting production.

It's been 8 years since the virus appeared in Europe. How long did it take for the virus to pass? Or is it still an issue effecting large scale production at some facilities?

The cricket virus has affected Canadian cricket farms...I didn't think I had but at the last reptile show, there was hardly any crickets available compared to past shows (then again the small was much smaller than usual too and none of the usual feeder suppliers were there, other than the sponsor and even he didn't have many boxes of crickets for sale).

However, its still not difficult to get crickets as when I need to buy some, they are still available even at local pet stores. I don't use much, maybe a couple dozen a month, just to feed my T.
-----
PHLdyPayne

Crickets have no nutritional value. That is why gutloading is so important.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

http://www.reptilica.co.uk/House-crickets-Acheta-domesticus.phtml
http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=94&products_id=857

Josh

http://www.bugorder.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=32&cat=07 Crickets - Full (6 week)

Josh

What about Phoenix worms ? I've never used them but the claim is they are high in protein,calcium. Aren't these just maggots? How are they nutritious ?

I have used them as treats, not staples. I have a bin full of home grown pinhead crickets. Going to see how that goes first. Problem with P worms for me is, here in the desert, they turn quick. They are supposed to have the highest calcium content when they turn to a black motionless pupa, but since they dont move, babies won't eat them.
I say mini supers are the way to go.
-----
www.moonstonedragons.com

Phoenix worms are larva of the black soldier fly. They are pretty nutritious but they don't get very big before they pupate, so really only good for hatchlings and small dragons. That and they are pretty expensive...last time I priced them, they are about $10/100 count jar.

The black soldier fly is native to most of NA if I recall correctly..definitely know they are used in agriculture for waste disposal (the once used as feeders, are not bred in animal wastes, but vegetation compost).

They are high in calcium and low in phosphorous but as they get closer to pupating, the calcium gets used up, especially once pupating.
-----
PHLdyPayne

Here's a comment from someone in the UK posted to another forum

"Do you guys in the US still use House Crickets (Acheta domestica)?
The UK commercial livefood breeders were hit by a virus several years back and the Acheta domestica colonies were ruined, the breeders here have switched to Gryllus assimilis (Silent / Jamaican Field Cricket) and Gryllodes sigillatus (Banded / Short-wing Cricket) in place and the good old Acheta are now rather difficult to come by."

Cheerio. lol.

http://www.lizardloungeblackpool.co.uk/page/livefood_nutritional_values

"Until relatively recently all of these types of cricket had been rare or non-existent in the trade as the bulk of crickets sold in the UK were Domestic Crickets (Acheta domestica). Unfortunately this species was wiped out by a virus a few years ago and are now impossible to breed across Europe. Several breeders both here and on the continent have tried to re-establish breeding cultures since then but to no avail. Breeders in the US seem to have avoided getting the virus although most here believe it's only a matter of time."