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Four years of work and waiting has finally paid off. The male greenish rat snake I caught here in Horry County, South Carolina has proven simple recessive. I found him on my job in June 2006. He was not large enough to breed then, and despite spending that entire summer and fall searching I did not find a locality female. The following year I found two adult females within 200 yards of where I found the male. I still had to wait another year so I could brumate these females. I caught them in mid-June. In 2008 I had bred the two females to the male visual and got two clutches of hets. I pushed them hard for growth and got 2.4 to breeding size by late last fall. The first pips emerged after 61 days of incubation. I got four visuals and seven hets from the first clutch. The second clutch of 14 has produced three visuals so far, but all of them have not cut their eggs yet. A third clutch is right on their heels with two eggs cut now. Despite having the two het males I chose to breed the gals to the visual morph to get more visuals. I still have not decided what to call them. They are not amels as all have black pupils and obviously some melanin in their patterns. I'm leaning toward some sort of hypo? Whatever they are they sure look cool, and I'm proud to have been lucky enough to complete this project. Below are photos of the hatchling morphs along with their het siblings as well as a photo of the adult W/C male with a het female.

Man those are sweeeet! Love the dad too. Are you sure he's a "Greenish Rat" though? I thought that was just a Black/Yellow hybrid?

I have some Black/Glades cooking right now right at 60 days. What temps did you keep your batch at?
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

That Male is beautiful! Looks like you got an extreme hypo or a lavender? Congratulations on the project!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

The greenish rat snake is a natural intergrade that occurs where black rat and yellow rat snakes ranges overlap. I have not seen a black or yellow rat snake in the wild here in well over twenty years. It seems as if the intergrade has become the dominant species (for lack of a better word) here. They are not considered hybrids and have been recognized for several decades now. The hatchlings vary a little with some showing pink tones and others more of a lavender tone. It makes sense as the adult has both pink and lavender markings. His stripes, which come from the yellow rat snake influence, became evident over time and were not visible when I caught him. I am thinking that the yellow will come in over time.

yeah, I remember that killer specimen there from a good while back. Congratulations on producing a number of those little gems bro!

Very cool stuff!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah I sure remember that one. Well done! I love that morph.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Wow, that's just awesome! I remember following his progress with a lot of interest years ago when you found him. I'm so excited that you finally proved him out. I look forward to seeing how some of those little ones develop. They already look fantastic-congratulations!

T possitive albino?
a GOOD hypo?looks too cool?........looks more T-plus...

get more opinions....post pic to Shannon Brown....milk forum

...NICE......
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......JY

Yeah, from what I can see in both the pics, they look to be more of a T-positive (lavender) mutation. And the lilac/lavenderish purple hue seems to indicate this too as opposed to simply being a "reduction" in melanin because of the amino acid tyrosinase still being present within the pigment cell(melanocyte).

I have to wonder if when the snakes are held up to the right lighting, that they aren't actually a very, very deep ruby red instead of being pitch black, but different gene's can do strange things regardless of what we are all used to seeing though, that is certain. The eyes "seem" to be not quite BLACK to me in the pics, but this can just be from the photos though.

I added this below for the OP and others to check out, so they can get a good idea of the way this gene mutation can operate. Many times pigment cells(chromatophores) don't work properly at all, or just a little, , or anything in between really, depending on many different factors, so a very similar mutation can be expressed in very different looking ways.

Melanophores

In the T+ form of albino, tyrosinase is produced but is blocked from gaining access into the melanophores. Simply put, all the parts are there - they just can't mix. However, in most specimens there is a certain amount of 'mixing' that occurs by cells disrupting or possibly by osmotic transfer. The exact method is unclear, and may vary. What is clear is that T+ albinos are generally darker than their counterparts, often containing traces of melanin deposits that result in a slightly darker look than the T- albinos of the same specie. Often red coloration is particularly prominent and many times the eyes are dramatically darker than expected.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

........if you look at the pic, the eyes seem to be red to me...ruby was already thought of....and the more I looked at the origional male the more I thought just an amel....yellow from yellow and purpley reddish from the black rat......so I quit looking....I want it to be a TPoss........really.....

good luck....

,.....check them eyes....
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......JY

I have been doing a little research on T positives. I found one interesting paper by B. Bechtel from 1981 that discussed what he proved to be two different types of albinism and one form of hypomelanism in P. obsoleta. Dopa reaction and frozen section testing determined that the two albino animals had different chemical forms of albinism that were non-allelic. One was T positive, the other was T negative. It was determined that the hypo was T positive allelic with the T positive albino form differing in the biochemical defect in melanogenisis. Now that all my hatchlings are out of the eggs I see considerable differences within the clutches, but more so I see differences in a clutch vs. clutch comparison. The four het females I bred were from two different w/c females. They were identified by numbers 3 and 4 respectively. The morphs that hatched from female 4 are collectively more pink in color, and the morphs from female 3 have darker markings collectively. The ones that exhibit the light pink markings also have pinkish pupils but nothing even close to what we normally associate with an albino. The darker ones have black pupils. I realize that it is hard to capture an accurate eye image with a camera (at least with my little point and shoot), but believe me when I say the adult has black pupils. These characteristics make this morph fall in line with what I have researched about T positive albinism. It is possible for individuals to have varying amounts of tyrosinase and therefore varying amounts of melanin. This would explain the variance in melanin displayed in these hatchlings. I might also add that the darkest ones also have black tongues while the lighter ones have pink tongues. I find it interesting that the example Bechtel referred to as "hypomelanistic or xanthic albino" was determined to be a T positive albino. This brings to question whether or not all hypomelanistics are in fact T positive. T positive albinos have limited amounts of melanin due to the presence of tyronisase. By definition hypomelanism and tyronisase positive seem synonymous, reduced levels of but presence of melanin. Just a thought. I will get some better photos after they all shed and post. I hesitate make any definite assumptions without proper testing, but for now all indications point to T positive. Thanks for all the replies folks. This project is literally a dream come true for me.

T- positive(lavender) individuals can vary. It all depends on how much tyrosinase is synthesized into melanin.

Keep in mind, any animals that display ANY dark pigment whatsoever are actually tyrosinase positive, and so are all hypomelanistics, even "extreme" hypos. When you think about it, you can't have any melanin at all without the presence of tyrosinase in the first place.

Thanks for giving the detailed phenotype characteristics of the two clutches as well, because this would help in also giving credence to them being probably being best described as "t-pos" lavenders as well.

Very interesting stuff man, and I really like those guys!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Here is the only one of this particular morph known to exist in this subspecies. This L.g. splendida was found crossing a road at night by a guy just recently.

This is a very similar deal to yours too, and is probably best described as a T-positive lavender as well.

enjoy!, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

The following supports you ideas of some hypos being a form of amelanism.

The peanut butter morph of the Florida kings looks hypo but is allelic with the T negative. They produce what is called a Jelly when bred to each other.
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www.Bluerosy.com

That adult is impressive. Almost resembles a rosy boa. Great job on producing those.

what are your plans for marketing/selling these awesome critters?