Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So a buddy of mine has a snow stripe male and a female amel that is double het for stripe and patternless. He plans to breed them, and then possibly breed one of the babies back to the female. Is this going to be a waste of genetics? I tried finding pictures of patternless stripes, but to no avail. I would imagine the patternless gene might cancel out the stripe?
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0.2.0 Variable Kingsnakes (Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri)
1.0.0 Cuban Boa (epicrates angulifer)
1.0.0 Haitian boa (epicrates striata)
0.1.0 Russian sandboa (eryx miliaris)
1.0.0 House cat

I'm still learning when it comes to corns, but I love this site for genetics... This is what I found:

http://iansvivarium.com/morphguide/vanishingstripe/

Apparently patternless is a selectively bred stripe. ***Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!***

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Balls
1.3 Pastels
0.2 Cinnamons
0.1 Pewter
1.0 Fire
1.0 Spider
1.0 100% Het Albino/100% Het Pied
0.3 100% Het Albino/50% Het Pied
1.1 100% Het Pied
0.2 PH Albino
1.5 Normals (1.0 unknown)
Boas
1.0 Salmon
0.1 Pastel Hypo
1.0 Pastel
0.1 Pastel P. Super Hypo Het Anery PH Albino
Corns
1.1 Bloodred Het Hypo 66% Het Anery

Patternless is selective breeding of striped, also reffered to as vanishing pattern. So, the likely result here is that the first generation will be Amel, 66% het snow that has a broken stripe. Your second gen will be dependant on how the line is bred.

Bred back to the snow, the offspring should be snows with lightly borken stripes, as patternless isn't a gene, but an expression of a gene.

Bred back to the Amel, you should see amels that are 33% het for snow and have one third to over one half of the stripe vanishing.

Bred back to their siblings, the results should be snows with half or more of the pattern vanished.

Feel free to correct this if I am wrong, guys, but this seems to make sense to me genetically. Is it a waste? Well, if you are looking for solid white snakes, this breeding schedule will not produce them. If you are looking to get snows with a good expression of the vanishing-type stripe gene, this will be worthwhile. He will have to determine if the offspring listed are worth the 4ish years, cost af snake feeding and electricity for heat/light (if applicable), and the risk of losing your breeders due to complications in birth, which is always a concern.

For me and my tastes, this is a waste, as I like color morphs and don't care for stripe or vanishing patterns. But that only works for me. If that is the result he wants, or the pattern is one that he's trying to create, then it is well worth his time. It will have to be up to him, and hopefully this bit of a schenario breakdown will be useful in making that determination.
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1.1.0 Dumerils Boas
0.1.0 Anery Cornsnake
1.1.0 Amel Hurricane Cornsnakes (66% het Snow)
0.0.1 ?Mystery? Albino Plains Garter (WC)(Ask for pic/details)
1.0.0 Apricot-phase Plains Milksnake (WC)

>>Patternless is selective breeding of striped, also reffered to as vanishing pattern. So, the likely result here is that the first generation will be Amel, 66% het snow that has a broken stripe. Your second gen will be dependant on how the line is bred.
>>
>>Bred back to the snow, the offspring should be snows with lightly borken stripes, as patternless isn't a gene, but an expression of a gene.
>>
>>Bred back to the Amel, you should see amels that are 33% het for snow and have one third to over one half of the stripe vanishing.
>>
>>Bred back to their siblings, the results should be snows with half or more of the pattern vanished.
>>
>>Feel free to correct this if I am wrong, guys, but this seems to make sense to me genetically. Is it a waste? Well, if you are looking for solid white snakes, this breeding schedule will not produce them. If you are looking to get snows with a good expression of the vanishing-type stripe gene, this will be worthwhile. He will have to determine if the offspring listed are worth the 4ish years, cost af snake feeding and electricity for heat/light (if applicable), and the risk of losing your breeders due to complications in birth, which is always a concern.
>>
>>For me and my tastes, this is a waste, as I like color morphs and don't care for stripe or vanishing patterns. But that only works for me. If that is the result he wants, or the pattern is one that he's trying to create, then it is well worth his time. It will have to be up to him, and hopefully this bit of a schenario breakdown will be useful in making that determination.
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look at the two exceptional vanishing stripe corns Tim posted and tell me those aren't beautiful corns.
you do know you can have patterns and color morphs don't you?
A lot of times the pattern morphs enhance the colors like the vanishing stripe amel Tim posted.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Absolutely. Some like powders and whiteouts are phenominal. In fact, our current project is our 2 66% het snow corns, which were hand-picked for their hurricane patterns. With any luck, in a year or two we should have some damned near perfect hurricane snows coming out, and I'm stoked about it.

To clarify a bit more, I don't particularly care for striped. But like I said, that's just me, and that opinion only works for me. Some others may want to produce normal corns in hurricane, or caramel cubes or pink snakes with blue polkadots, and I support all of these efforts fully. Am I likely to buy them? Not likely. But am I likely to admire them and praise the intrepid breeder that put in the 6 generations to produce what they feel is their dream snakes and love every minute of it? Absolutely, brothers.

Follow what you want to do, not what one of us tells you to do; most of us are pretty opinionated, lol. We may grumble or gripe sometimes, but in the end, we'll ooooh and aaaah over what we 'didn't like' like it's a newborn baby. Hehe, keep the cool stuff coming breeders.
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1.1.0 Dumerils Boas
0.1.0 Anery Cornsnake
1.1.0 Amel Hurricane Cornsnakes (66% het Snow)
0.0.1 ?Mystery? Albino Plains Garter (WC)(Ask for pic/details)
1.0.0 Apricot-phase Plains Milksnake (WC)

>>Absolutely. Some like powders and whiteouts are phenominal. In fact, our current project is our 2 66% het snow corns, which were hand-picked for their hurricane patterns. With any luck, in a year or two we should have some damned near perfect hurricane snows coming out, and I'm stoked about it.
>>
>>To clarify a bit more, I don't particularly care for striped. But like I said, that's just me, and that opinion only works for me. Some others may want to produce normal corns in hurricane, or caramel cubes or pink snakes with blue polkadots, and I support all of these efforts fully. Am I likely to buy them? Not likely. But am I likely to admire them and praise the intrepid breeder that put in the 6 generations to produce what they feel is their dream snakes and love every minute of it? Absolutely, brothers.
>>
>>Follow what you want to do, not what one of us tells you to do; most of us are pretty opinionated, lol. We may grumble or gripe sometimes, but in the end, we'll ooooh and aaaah over what we 'didn't like' like it's a newborn baby. Hehe, keep the cool stuff coming breeders.
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we all have likes and dislikes...I didn't used to be a stripe fan but now they are some of my favorites and one of my better projects.
There ree several morphs out there that I don't care for and like you wouldn't want to put years into working with but I have noticed myself ooohing and aaahing over a few morphs I swore I didn't like.
It changes daily but that's what makes it so fun...

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Patternless is stripe. It's simply a very reduced stripe. There's no such thing as being het for patternless. In order to make patternless snakes, those with reduced stripes need to be bred togather in hopes that some of variations in stripe in the offspring will result in nearly patternless babies. I don't think there are very many truly patternless corns - they almost always have some striping on the neck. I think it's more correct to call them "Vanishing Pattern."

Tim

Some pics of my VP corns are below.

Ghost:

Albino:

Snow (not a blizzard - a vanishing pattern stripe):

Third Eye

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com