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Picked up this female last year. Pretty different-looking northern pine, no? Any thoughts??
Also, please note that her belly is not immaculate. It's mottled, which has me slightly concerned about her purity. Of course she was offered as a CB and raised pure northern pine.

Thanks,
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

Brian, that is an awsome looking animal. If it has any mixture I would be thinking lodingi. Did you obatain those from a guy in St Louis?? I saw some a year or so back that aI thought about purchasing. But, regardless...that is a fine looking animal.

Dan

Dan,
Thank you. I agree that it certainly does appear to have some form of mixture, like lodingi for example. I bought her and one other...seemingly pure female northern...from a company in TN I think. She is a neat snake, but I have my concerns and many know how gun shy I am about impurity.
Thanks again,
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

I'm far from an expert but I think it looks like some lodingi x in there. The excess black on the front, and that stout body shape screams lodingi in there to me.

Thanks. Yeah the more I look the more I see it. I should try and snap some photos of the belly. That would really send people into a frenzy. All speckled and such.
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--Brian Scott

As you know, I love that snake. I certainly wouldn't rule out a hybrid but why not just a hyper-melanistic NP - Occam's Razor.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Brad,
For me it's the belly that really seals the deal. Of course, there are other factors that come into play. She has only slightly keeled scales, a degree of stoutness that I have never seen in northerns (and I have seen A LOT of northerns), as well as some behavioral traits as well. She is super cool in terms of attitude, though, which makes my life a little simpler.
Thanks!
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

Heck, send her to me. I'm the king of mystery pits
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

That you are, Brad. That you are
Just say the word and off she goes. No charge, as usual.
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--Brian Scott

If it was dark chocolate-brown instead of black, I would say it was a Baldwyn County, AL intergrade between mugitus and lodingi. As it is, I would say it's a captive produced northern/black hybrid.

Cheers,

TV

Terry,
Thanks for your input. Not really the news that I wanted to read, but maybe I am just selectively blind to what I want things to be. The more I look at her, and the more I read what folks here have to say, the more I see it. I have seen the light!!
Now, what to do with her is the question. I don't fancy hybrids or impurities. I guess someone is getting a free snake as a pet.
Thanks again,
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

Over the years i have seen several Northerns with a heavy infusion of black on the anterior; I held such an animal in my hands in 1979 originating from Burlington County, New Jersey. I have seen this in South Carolins specimens as well. I have also seen preserved specimans in museum collections that looked a lot like that from lodingi range, leading me (as well as several others)to question the validity of lodingi from a subspecific standpoint.

Bart