Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a point I would like to make regarding herpetoculture. In defending against the arguments of anti-exotic politicians, we often say that breeding reptiles in captivity is one way to prevent the extinction of these animals. Since reptiles are disappearing across the planet, this is a very penetrating statement for someone who wants to conserve nature.

But is this really what we are doing? Let's look at the ball python, for example. Python regius has been bred en masse for decades, and this popularity has been fueled by the "production" of some very striking morphs, including albinos and leucistics. However, any biologist will tell you that such creatures cannot survive in the wild. Albinos can hardly be exposed to sunlight, or their health is threatened. Other morphs create problems as well; how on earth could a lavender ball python avoid detection by predators if its camouflage has been stripped away? Since many of these traits are recessive, the pythons' offspring wouldn't be any better off, though whether such an animal would live long enough to breed is debatable.

What I am saying is, if ball pythons were to become critically endangered in the wild, how could captive-bred individuals serve the wild populations if the vast majority of them were unable to survive in the wild? A reintroducing program would certainly be a dramatic failure if all of the captive pythons were genetically anomalous.

So is the captive breeding of such species as the ball python, corn snake, king snake, bearded dragon, and leopard gecko really giving us a reservoir of specimens in case wild populations were to become endangered? It would appear not. My point is this: perhaps it is unwise to continually be trying to "engineer" oddball reptiles simply because they are more visually pleasing to someone who cannot appreciate reptiles otherwise. Instead, why not concentrate on exploring "normal" animals for all their ordinary glory? Is a normal ball python really all that bad? And when the wolves come knocking at our doors with things like HR 669, can we really say that professional breeders are aiding conservation?

Best regards,
Pinstripe

I don't think this has ever been the goal. I believe the Ideah is that with Ball Pythons for example, in such large quantities and in much higher quality than fresh imports, then this would releive pressure to import wild animals. Why would you buy a freshly imported Ball with all the problems associated with them, when you can buy a super nice captive bred one? This is how we help the situation hopefully. Prices come down drastically for wild imports and thus they become less lucrative for the people catching and selling them.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I have to agree. Not only is the previous statement tru, but there is another shoe as well. Both the private and commercial breeders that supply the industry are dedicated to providing the best animal health they can. Whereas a lot of the time this is for monetary reasons, it still has possitive effects for us.

Animals with good health are usually animals with good genes, and as such the healthy normals that we see are usually the result of very hearty breeding stock. And keep in mind that what we consider an acceptable animal as enthusiasts is in reality a teerific specimen by wild standards.

Morphing snakes actually accounts for less than 10% of all captive bred animals. They go to those of us that love the variations, or more rarely, those who happen to have their eyes caught by a beautiful abberant. Thus most breeding actually already does what you already espose, lol.
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1.1.0 Dumerils Boas
0.1.0 Anery Cornsnake
1.1.0 Amel Hurricane Cornsnakes (66% het Snow)
0.0.1 ?Mystery? Albino Plains Garter (WC)(Ask for pic/details)
1.0.0 Apricot-phase Plains Milksnake (WC)

Thanks for the replies, I wanted to better understand this issue. Please don't repeat answer, I'm checking all of the posts.

Best regards,
pinstripe

I suppose another good point to make here is that the genetic abberants that we breed are based on generally recessive traits. That is, an albino bred to a non-albino, non-het specimen will result not in more albinos, but 50% hets, which are generally almost 100% nornal in appearance and perfectly capable of wild survival. All one must do is breed one, or at most 2 generations, and the abberant genetics will fade, according to Mendelev.

Even the most wildly morphed animals can be returned to a relatively normal state quite easily, and the chances of 2 compatible hets meeting in the wild and mating is relatively low. The reason we have our insane breeding programs is that these morphs are a beast to achieve and maintain. Thus with outbreeding and a little elbow grease, our oddities can be ready for wild life clutches in no time.
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1.1.0 Dumerils Boas
0.1.0 Anery Cornsnake
1.1.0 Amel Hurricane Cornsnakes (66% het Snow)
0.0.1 ?Mystery? Albino Plains Garter (WC)(Ask for pic/details)
1.0.0 Apricot-phase Plains Milksnake (WC)

>>Thanks for the replies, I wanted to better understand this issue. Please don't repeat answer, I'm checking all of the posts.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>pinstripe

you posted on multiple forums why shouldn't he answer on multiple forums?
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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I smell something fishy about this. Someone on another forum said it was probably PETA. Forgive me if your intentions are sincere "Pinstripe", but you don't seem to be adressing any of the answers given? The fact that you posted in so many forums makes this seem a bit spamish, or agenda laden.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

"In defending against the arguments of anti-exotic politicians, we often say that breeding reptiles in captivity is one way to prevent the extinction of these animals."

I've never heard anyone say that - at least not a private hobbyist breeding snakes. People generally breed snakes because it's fun and they want to make some money (which is the same reason why hobbyists breed fish, birds, dogs, etc.).

There are some hobbyist turtle breeders keeping "assurance colonies" of Asian turtles in case some types go extinct in the wild (which appears to have happened) and I'd say that's done in an attempt to prevent them from going extinct - but not snakes.

Tim

One of my Chinese Yellow Pond Turtles:

Third Eye