Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've never had a snake die in the egg at full term. I have one right now that I cut at 56 days and it doesn't seem to be moving AT ALL. I've had snakes that didn't move much when you cut the egg, but never one that just sat there. It also seems like the yolk in this egg is more occluded than the others. It's a freaking pastel pied. None of the snakes from this clutch have left their egg yet, and it doesn't appear that there are any major structural abnormalities. There is also no unusual smell from this egg. Does anyone have pictures of balls that died at full term in the egg they could post so I could compare them? Any thoughts on what I should/shouldn't do?

I had a really important hatchling die the day it hatched out..It's umbilical cord was knotted up,so i could only conclude that it had starved to death..It actually crawled halfway out of the egg,and then died.

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Charles Glaspie
picasaweb.google.com/coldthumb

Don't have any pics, but I always mark the position of the hatchling in the egg! Wait about 24 hours, if it hasn't change position and the fluid looks "stagnant", it's bad news!

A recent clutch pipped and all except one egg showed little heads sticking out. When I cut the unpipped egg, the baby was alive but refused to put his head out and breathe. After two days it was dead. I pulled him out to find a fully formed ghost with a large yolk still attached. The umbilical was twisted and I believe he died due to the inability to absorb the yolk. There was nothing I could have done, If I pulled him out while alive, he still would have died due to the large unabsorbed yolk.

Susan Sentman
ssnakes.com

So I clipped a larger hole in the egg trying to get a better look, and the snake moved a bit. There is still WAY more yolk in this egg than any of the others. Should I try and gently pull him out to see if the umbilical is twisted? Should I just leave him alone? Should I take him to a reptile vet (there is one near me who is supposed to be VERY good)?

Oh, and it's a pastel pied for sure.....

RELAX! What day is the egg at today? Still 56? If it's not at 60, I'd leave it alone! Remember, mpther nature dictates 60 days! No one's in Ghana, cutting these eggs open!

Day 61 (but I'm at high altitude, which does actually seem to make them pop a bit later than at sea level)

keep it in the incubator....
if neede3d stick the egg into a 16 oz deli-cup and set it in the incubator (or in the box in the bator)....

.......some die...we have no way of telling which...too wet will kill them I think....

....iF you accidentally pull it out keep it in a cup with the yolk and all...do not ever cut a yolk sac off....
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......JY

I would leave it and see what happens! I wouldn't mess w/yolks!

for whatever reason...but it does. I just had a Coral GLow sitting there in its egg and then drowned/died.

That is not good for moral...just like your Pastel Pied.....

I would think it is just part of the odds.

STINKS!

SATAN

>>I've never had a snake die in the egg at full term. I have one right now that I cut at 56 days and it doesn't seem to be moving AT ALL. I've had snakes that didn't move much when you cut the egg, but never one that just sat there. It also seems like the yolk in this egg is more occluded than the others. It's a freaking pastel pied. None of the snakes from this clutch have left their egg yet, and it doesn't appear that there are any major structural abnormalities. There is also no unusual smell from this egg. Does anyone have pictures of balls that died at full term in the egg they could post so I could compare them? Any thoughts on what I should/shouldn't do?
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

It seems that at least once every season I have at least one hatchling that has a twisted umbilicus. Just my luck it seems since it's not like it seems to be happening with one Sire or Dam more than the others.

Anyways, sometimes they die - this usually happens because I didn't catch it in time and didn't realize that the hatchling had anything wrong. Of those I was able to figure out something was wrong before they died, I've been able to save them all.

This is my general plan of attack.

1.) I don't bother cutting the eggs until they have started to pip. I usually incubate at around 86 degrees F. They take a few more days to pip but the babies seem more robust and have a better feeding response (in my opinion and experience). So, generally they begin to pip at about day 62-65... sometimes a day or two more. After this I will slit each egg in that clutch and let them be from there.

2.) Give them a chance to come out on their own. I will very gently "poke" each hatchling with a Q-tip while they are still in the egg. This is only for my own peace of mind. If they move or squirm a little bit I'm happy because I know they are alive. If there is one I'm concerned about or have my doubts about I will keep an eye on him/her. Leave them alone. If all of the other hatchlings have left their eggs and the questionable one remains, give it another 12-18 hours from the time the last one left the egg. Sometimes, this might be too long and you might be too late, but in general even waiting this long you should be fine.

3.) If after waiting you find that the hatchling still hasn't left the egg, THEN I take some action. This might be over the top or even too drastic for some people, but it is what has worked for me. Any of the babies I've ever had that were dead in the egg have ALL had a twisted umbilicus. None of them have had any other visible deformities or other abnormalities.

4.) Before I do anything I make sure I have everything prepared and ready for me. I use small plastic Gerber baby food bowls. Look in the baby food section of where ever you shop. They might be a little pricey but they are the perfect size for a baby ball python to use as a temporary "foster-egg". I usually sterilize the bowl with alcohol and allow the alcohol to completely evaporate before continuing. Then line the bowl with damp paper towels. The softer the towel the better. Wash your hands well. Then I remove the baby from it's egg very, very, very (I can't stress this enough... if you pop the yolk - it's all over) carefully. Usually my wife will help me with this.

Have a couple damp paper towels laid out for you to place the baby onto while you look it over. Usually, my wife will hold the baby down while I carefully manipulate the yolk sack to untwist the umbilical cord. Most of the time it is simply twisted. I have run into one case where the umbilicus was not only twisted but also wrapped around the snake's tail several times. This one died in the egg and I'm not sure I could have done anything anyways.

After untwisting the umbilicus I will place the baby into it's Gerber bowl/foster-egg and then place a damp paper towel on top of it. Place the bowl back into the incubator in the egg box (just like it was a "real" egg) and it usually only takes between 24-36 hours for the baby to absorb the yolk. Like I said, this may be over the top for some people, but so far I've had great success with this. I'm not sure why, but I end up with at least one hatchling a year with a twisted umbilicus so I feel I have have enough experience with this to be able to give at least a little bit of advice. Hopefully, this isn't the case with your Pastel Pied (definitely my favorite combo), but if it is and you are careful you may be able to save him/her. It's nerve racking but have patience.
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Stay United!

I'm still not sure if it's weird that my best friend is a two year old boa named Ronin. He's quiet, non-judgemental and listens... what more could you want?

Brandon,

Thank you for the advice. I intend to take it (although waiting may kill me, I only hope to save the baby).

Very interesting and ingenious procedure you have described Brandon. Thank you for telling us how you attempt to save hatchlings with a twisted umbilicus. If I had heard this a couple of weeks ago, I could have saved the little ghost with this problem. I'll definitely try it the next time! Thanks!

Susan
SSNAKES.com

Your are welcome, Susan. And "Thank you" for the nice compliment. I'm sorry to hear about your Ghost.

As far as the procedure goes, I would like to add that IF someone feels comfortable enough to attempt this (and it really isn't too difficult 99% of the time) that I would HIGHLY suggest that they not only have someone else present to hold the hatchling still but that they also were some sort of surgical gloves. Latex, Nitrile and Vinyl gloves are all readily available at a local pharmacy (I like to use them when cleaning tubs especially).

The reason for the gloves isn't sterility. Once the baby has pipped or a person has slit the egg all hope of a sterile environment is gone. I wouldn't doubt if most people that are cutting on days 50-59 are also seeing the "whites" of their hatchlings eggs begin to turn milky and cloudy looking. This is actually a bacterial bloom in the whites of the egg.

The reason for the gloves is because they make your fingertips smooth. People have very rough hands by comparison to the membranes that surround and make up a yolk sack. All it would take is a sharp fingernail, a rough patch of skin or something similar to abrade, scratch or tear at those delicate yolk membranes and your "simple" procedure goes down hill real fast.

All in all it is a fairly easy thing to do, it is just the yolk sack that requires a sense of delicacy and patience.

I hope you never have to actually use this technique (or anyone else that might read this) but if you do, I also hope that it helps and you have some measure of success with it.

I'm still trying to come up with a "home grown" way to get around the issue of a punctured yolk sack, fortunately I haven't had it happen and so I haven't had the chance to attempt some of the ideas I have floating around.
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Stay United!

I'm still not sure if it's weird that my best friend is a two year old boa named Ronin. He's quiet, non-judgemental and listens... what more could you want?

Brandon...I've an Eastern Dry maiden breeder which laid 6 eggs.
One went bad in the first week. Opening it up revealed a solid mass as if all the protein had denatured. Little bit of blood present.

Finished incubation with the rest at 78 degrees for three months which was 2 days ago. No sign of pipping, I opened one to find fully developed dead baby with embilical wrapped around tail, but also with a solid fleshy kind of yolk sac. I opened two more with the exact same result. Perfectly developed dead baby snake with this yolk sac like solid rubber.

I still have two in the incubator.

Ever seen anything like this? Want me to email some pics?

JEP