Reptile & Amphibian Forums

TAMPA TRIBUNE (Florida) 28 June 10 Ban on sales of 5 snakes, Nile lizard starts Thursday (Neil Johnson)
The specter of giant pythons swarming through the Everglades and the tragic death of a Sumter County toddler in the coils of her family's pet python prompted a law going into effect Thursday that bans the sale of the pythons and other reptiles in Florida.
The new law also bars people from owning the snakes as pets, though residents who already own them can keep them, provided they already have state permits and continue to renew their licenses for $100.
The law applies to five species of snakes and the Nile monitor lizard.
Dealers and breeders can still sell the snakes, but only to customers outside Florida.
The law covers some of the more recent headline-grabbing reptiles: Indian, Burmese, reticulated, African rock and scrub pythons; plus green anacondas and Nile monitor lizards.
The state has issued fewer than 300 permits for people with those reptiles, said Patricia Behnke, spokeswoman for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, but there is no way to know how many people have the pythons without a permit, she said.
Last week, the agency put the finishing touches on how it will enforce the new law, though it will probably take a month before the new rules can be implemented, Behnke said.
The game commission's rules allow people with or without a permit to turn over snakes they no longer want or can't handle to licensed keepers at any time rather than on a few amnesty days a year, as has been the case.
But some in the reptile business believe the law will do little to curb wild populations of the snakes and say the number of the exotic reptiles breeding in the wild is highly overblown.
"The number of pythons they claim are loose in the Everglades is inflated," said Anthony Green, who takes snakes people turn in at Westside Aquarium and Pets in Tampa.
Limiting sales to people outside Florida will make little difference in the number of snakes breeders keep, Green said.
"I honestly don't think it's changing anything," he said. "The law is not going to stop them from doing what they've been doing. Breeders breed here because it's tropical."
Joe Fauci, owner of Southeast Reptile Exchange, a wholesale dealer in Tampa, said the new law will squeeze his business.
"Probably in the long run it will be about 30 percent," he said. "And they're doing this when the economy is bad."
Fauci doubts the law will do much good. "It will just create a black market trade."
The law passed after weeks of warnings from the game commission that breeding populations of pythons were well established in the Everglades, news stories about giant snakes and a much-publicized trapping effort, organized by the state.
Vernon Yates, founder of Wildlife Rescue and Rehabilitation in Seminole, said the ban is based on hype.
"It's exaggerated. It's blown out of proportion. It's all being done off of hype," he said.
The ban also will ripple beyond the breeders and pet shop owners who will no longer be able to sell the snakes in Florida, he said.
The people who breed mice and rats for food will lose business. So will companies that make cages and enclosures, Yates said.
And he doubts the new law will solve anything.
"It will push the python issue underground. It ain't gonna stop me from having one," he said. "It's going to make people have them illegally which means they're not going to be properly caged and not going to be permitted."
Dealers and breeders who have any reptiles on the banned list will have to keep them or sell them out of state. There is no other way to dispose of the snakes, Yates said.
It also means he has no outlet for pythons he captures in the wild or that someone turns over.
"I'll be stuck with them," he said.
The game commission has an online locator map to find people who will take the snakes from owners at https://public.myfwc.com/maps/rocmapping/default.aspx
Ban on sales of 5 snakes, Nile lizard starts Thursday

WCTV (Tallahassee, Florida) 24 June 10 FWC Approves New Rules For Burmese Python
Press Release From The Florida Fish And Wildlife Conservation Commission:
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) approved changes to the classification of Burmese pythons and other constrictor reptiles at a meeting Thursday in Lake Mary.
Under the new rules, Floridians will not be able to acquire Burmese pythons and other reptiles of concern as pets. However, the FWC advises people who currently hold a reptile of concern license for a Burmese/Indian python, reticulated python, green anaconda, Nile monitor lizard, African rock python, or amethystine python that they will be allowed to keep the pet for the life of that animal under the new rules.
These rule changes implement a bill by Sens. Eleanor Sobel and Lee Constantine, and Reps. Trudi Williams and Ralph Poppell. It passed in the Florida Legislature, and Gov. Charlie Crist signed it in June.
All species listed as reptiles of concern in Florida will be removed and placed in the category of conditional species. In addition, African rock pythons will be split into two species: northern African pythons and southern African pythons. Amethystine pythons will be split into the amethystine pythons and scrub pythons. Dealers, breeders, exhibitors and researchers will be permitted to possess conditional snakes and lizards for sale outside Florida. In addition to allowing current reptile of concern pet owners to keep their reptiles, the Commission approved an extension of the 24/7 amnesty rule to include conditional snakes and lizards. This will allow anyone who can no longer keep these species as pets to turn them over to a licensed dealer. The FWC stresses that no nonnative species should ever be released into the wild.
Burmese pythons in particular have established breeding populations in parts of South Florida, and the FWC, in partnership with state and federal agencies, works diligently to control the current wild population. As a result of this effort, the FWC also approved the take of conditional species in four wildlife management areas in South Florida during established hunting seasons for game animals and alligators by properly licensed or permitted hunters. Guns may be used only during a gun season or during the extended spring season, March 8 - April 17. The conditional species may not be removed from the WMAs alive.
The Commission also approved further security measures for commercial reptile dealers in how they transport snakes and lizards in Florida. New rules also require that the nonnative conditional species be held indoors or outdoors only with a fixed, secure roof over the enclosure. All of these animals also must be micro-chipped, unless they will be exported out of Florida within 180 days.
FWC Approves New Rules For Burmese Python

"The Commission also approved further security measures for commercial reptile dealers in how they transport snakes and lizards in Florida. New rules also require that the nonnative conditional species be held indoors or outdoors only with a fixed, secure roof over the enclosure. All of these animals also must be micro-chipped, unless they will be exported out of Florida within 180 days."

It does seem like the FWC is making it more difficult to do business for those that will sell outside the state. Not good in my opinion when "regulatory commissions" can get together and change the rules whenever and however it suits them.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I think it's a 6 hour drive to Atlanta from Orlando. How many reptile shows do they have up there each year? Guess where people who want a burm are going to go? I saw this happen between N.Y. and pennsylvania with caimans and alligators.
With the permit system they were probably more successful than they realized at keeping people from casual ownership of roc's. You could get the permit but it was a pita and it was a hundred bucks, most people would opt for something else.
Now rocs are forbidden fruit apparently all those republicans who passed this and run around screaming "family values" while waving their bibles in the air are waving around bibles that are lacking the book of Genesis. Because they either didn't read that story about adam and eve or are to stupid to get it (most likely the latter.)
God tells them you can eat ANY fruit here except THIS one. So what do they do? They get advice about eating fruit from and animal that is an obligate carnivore and eat it anyway. PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK IT NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL.

"it aint going to stop me from owning one"...amen I was one of those 300 people who applied for and got my ROC license and honestly it was THE dumbest thing Ive ever done in my life...

...Im ready to go underground...anybodyelse?
..."when snakes are outlawed,only outlaws will keep snakes"...then so be it...

are more likely to be of the caliber of the guy who kept the 8' Burm in a cage with cloth tied around the top for a lid - the guy who let it escape to ALLEGEDLY kill the 2 year old. Most of the educated people who are active on forums will probably eventually get tired of hiding their hobby, and will move on to something legal, or become authorized commercial breeders - or move. But it is the former who are the problem, not the latter. And the former were already breaking the law, so I doubt that this ban will stymie them.

If we had been given an ROC law that cost $25 per year, we would have had a good chance to EVENTUALLY get even those uncaring and uneducated types either covered, or out of keeping the big snakes, due to peer pressure that could have been applied, and also because of the ease of compliance. Once permitted, they could have been forced to supply secure caging.

With the $100 per year ROC permit, we had a SLIGHT chance of regulating people such as this. Now with the ban, they will just go underground, and will only be caught by chance.

Typical of the unintended consequences of so many laws.

I posted this before. I'm telling you this is my new theme song. If I can talk some of the people I play with into it I'll start playing it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KItM0GxIiHU
Link

Never truer words spoken. "They" really don't want compliance, now do they.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Calparsoni,

Yep...Not only do they seek to end it but, to criminalize it as well...Better to make sensational stories for the PR storyline for the media's pundits and the AR folk's donation campaigns...

Later,
Jim.
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CSRAJim

>>The Commission also approved further security measures for commercial reptile dealers in how they transport snakes and lizards in Florida. New rules also require that the nonnative conditional species be held indoors or outdoors only with a fixed, secure roof over the enclosure. All of these animals also must be micro-chipped, unless they will be exported out of Florida within 180 days.

With today's technology micro-chipping is just about as idiotic as this ban. Why require an invasive surgical procedure that can easily be undone when a simple DNA test would do and could not be defeated?

It starts with our pets and it ends with us. By the time they force them on people they will have the ability to track us as well as identify us. Given the logical path we are going on where we use actual money less and less and utilize electronic methods of payment it makes that whole thing in revelation about not being able to buy or sell without the "mark of the beast" not seem as far fetched as it once did.
Whether it is or isn't the "mark of the beast" I don't care, microchips are not welcome on my property much less in my animals (or in me.) and I'll fight to the death to defend that belief. I do not care if people call me crazy for that either, they already have and it still does not change how I feel about chips.

I have been investigating micro chips and I found an example of an underwater reciever that they put across rivers and as fish pass over them the chip is read now imagine we all have them implanted at birth even in your body cavity where it would be difficult to remove and "they" had readers all over and even on all security dectectors in stores and maybe metal detectors st air ports and and stuff they could track most peoples movements pretty easily. Maby businesses could have them around there buildings and monitor the number of times you go the the bathroom and the time heck it could already be being done if you have a name badge or something you need to cary around for work. I better stop or I will freak myself out.Can you say big brother?
Rob

Tracking employees is big business. Even at the preemployment level. Online applications...
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer