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Hi All, I am not normally a milksnake person and I don't post in this section but because of what happened today, I thought it would be a pretty good idea!

I got a call today while at work from my mom. Nobody ever calls me at work. She wanted to tell me about this "pretty little red and white snake" she had just found. My first thought was, have I had anything albino escape? No... so then I thought... someone in my area must have lost their pet corn and now I will be stuck with it! The thought of a eastern milk barely crossed my mind, but I dismissed it because I never thought I could get that lucky. Well... I did. My mom actually did walk out into our yard, and pick up an albino eastern milksnake.

It is a hatchling, a little female, just days old! She crawled out of a little woodpile that is in our yard, it's old, with plywood and tarps and because many garter snakes have called it home for years we have decided to leave it for them. The middle of this woodpile has some moist, falling apart wood that is the most likely candidate for where the eggs were laid. I will be going through the pile tomorrow to see if I can locate any of her brothers and sisters. We live in a secluded area... there is really nowhere else coverage-wise for them to venture to except around my house.

Sorry, but these crappy indoor photos do her no real justice. Her saddles are a bright popping strawberry color.... and her base color is a pale yellowish cream. Then the parts that line the saddles that would normally be black are purplish, and upon closer imspection I realized that she has patches of dark pigmentation all over her... making her a paradox on top of it! Her eyes have red pupils with semi-dark irises similar to my t positive strains of garter snakes. This such a cool find... how did we get this lucky??? This is the third morph animal I have stumbled upon.. there was the hypo eastern garter snake, then the flame eastern, and now THIS?! This is incredible. Here are photos of "Candy" as I call her... not sure what we will do with her yet! I will take better photos of her in natural light tomorrow.

LOL- Well the snake gods have certainly smiled on you.!!!!!
Thats an awsome looking snake.Funny thing is I was just asking someone yesterday if there had ever been an albino produced. Please keep sending pics as long as you have her. Congrats

Awesome find! Good luck with her.

I found this amel about three years ago.

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Joe

Wow congratulations on that find! that is amazing that crawled out of a woodpile in your backyard. Congratulations. that is a beautiful animal.

Whats up with all the morphs on your property!!! Too cool. Again congratuations!

Dave Niles
DNS Reptiles

Wow SLB-that is truly a spectacular find. Best of luck with that project!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

That's pretty spectacular stuff! Congrats! Have you worked with NA milks before? There are a number of guys here on the forum who'd be able to help you out with feeding issues, etc.

As a bit of added info, I'm willing to bet that your animal is a 2009 hatch - the eggs laid this season would not have begun to hatch at this point. They tend to hatch in August and September.

-Cole

Great find. It is too early to tell but looks similar to an extreme or T more than a true amel. I could just be the pics too but the borders on the saddles look darker. If it is in that complex, congrats on a very new project. If not, an amel as a consolation prize ain't too shabby

Nice post

but maybe that is what you posted too and it didn't show up.

Normally my first response would be cautious optimism as many many morphs are found and are never ever reproduced simply because there is such a difference between "finding" skills and "keeping" skills. I have seen your work with waters and garters, no such forewarning needed. Some baby milks can be difficult.
Now there are certainly some "paradox" scales on her, I'd be willing to bet she is a LAVENDER albino rather than a typical. Joe should have some great pics(and here is the perfect reason for them!)of his typical albino Eastern he found a few years ago. The eye color and scalation may more resemble the "HYPO" coastal plains milk which most people consider a lavender albino misnamed. Maybe someone with nice close up pics of one could post for comparison?
The next and obvious question you will be BOMBED with is locality. More than any other species, milksnake captive breeding has spawned "LOCALITY NUTZ" who wont be interested in any snake they dont know EXACTLY where its found. With state laws being what they are, the internet "police" having nothing better to do,etc, there will then be a question of legality. I have had Anery Eastern milks for years and I made it known to the director of permitting what I was doing. Joe can back me up on this as he asked him the same question, and (in Mass anyways)as long as you dont sell WC animals the offspring fall into a loophole that they have no interest in pursueing. Being forthcoming WORKS! Your state maybe different, but this snakes' survival in the wild is negligable. Your attempt to find its littermates is obvious if more concerning, cutting a generation off of the time needed to reproduce them is warranted.
Best of all, for many reasons, your joy and energy and female ways can now come spice up THIS forum! It might make this locker room straighten up a bit! We have lots of interesting discussions, start fights on purpose, try to keep from name calling....juvenile behavior. I'll apologize for my actions up front, being the sarcastic arse in residence. Very happy for your find!

More than any other species, milksnake captive breeding has spawned "LOCALITY NUTZ" who wont be interested in any snake they dont know EXACTLY where its found.

Hey, now! Ever been to the alterna forum?! LOL

-Cole (one of the "Locality Nuts"

L. t. multistrata - Thomas Co., NE

Cole, first, congrats again on the nuptuals. Your pics were quite a contrast to your usual barren landscapes. On topic, tell me why it is that of those who would call themselves "locality nutz"...what morphs are associated with anyone? It would seem to me that field guys would have hats to hang right? I mean every new morph cant be from someone new right? Just askin...

Thanks, buddy! She's a great catch and more than tolerant of my "eccentricities" (snakes, cigars, etc.).

Morphs? Credited to my name? Nah! I've found some odd animals, but none that I collected since I wasn't interested in working with them. Odd Coluber, Patternless/orange-splotched Crotalus viridis (did keep them for a while), etc.

I've found several milks that would be hypoerythristic (not true anerythristic, since traces of color are produced by the erythrophores. I've not gathered enough data to do anything more than suggest it's a heritable trait. Future pairings may clear that up. I've also got a number of milks with fading/disappearing patterns. Time will tell if this trait is heritable, too. To be honest, neither mutation is really something I'd seek to reproduce, though I wouldn't eliminate them from my breeding groups, either, and they're not that extreme.

L. t. multistrata - Bighorn Co., MT - "Hypoerythristic"?

"Normal", but dark, animal from the same locality

L. t. multistrata - Yellowstone Co., MT - Fading Pattern

"Normal" animal from the same locality

I look at those 3 snakes and I love the "normal" one even more!

This has been a good year for Kings and Milks!!!!!!!!!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I guess the "plus" sign did not show up! Well, lucky for me, I found it in my backyard so the locality is definitely known. This animals is NOT a hypo.... to me a hypo animal would have more melanin than this. This snake is ALMOST amel, but she's clearly NOT amel. She's a T plus for sure.... no doubt in my mind! I took more photos of her today. Will post them once I get them uploaded!

Not many people have a mom cool enough to do that. Take her out to supper, or something else she would enjoy!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I wouldn't say that quite yet. The only reason is the mega honduran scenario, which should be completely figured out very shortly (I cannot tell a soul, LOL). You are correct, it resembles a T plus but a T plus also resembles a Sentz pyro, which follows the traditional pattern of hypo. In time you'll find out.

Good luck

And dont forget most of these snakes have never taken "the test". History: when 2 albino forms of ratsnake were bred together and normals appeared some science was done(really!). At that point they noticed that Tyranosine(sp? lol)was present with 1 albino strain and not with the other hence t- and t plus. Now it happened that one was a normal and one was lavender LOOKING. So while everyone can argue about T positive, no one can argue lavender albino....so lets use THAT name. We argue enough as it is! LOL.

Tyrosinase.

I'm familiar with albinism. Aside from my medical training, I created a large web site about albino dobermans some years back.

While "lavendar albino" sounds prettier, "tyrosinase-positive" or "t-positive" albino is technically more accurate (as long as it has been proven).
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

If you tout yourself to know how to spell T plus and have all this "amazondoc" training how can you not know that only a SINGLE tyro test has ever been done...and that was with ratsnakes! Not a single test with milks or kings. Cite your literature!! LMAO! Welome to the back of the class!

>>If you tout yourself to know how to spell T plus and have all this "amazondoc" training how can you not know that only a SINGLE tyro test has ever been done...and that was with ratsnakes! Not a single test with milks or kings. Cite your literature!! LMAO! Welome to the back of the class!

Jeez, Jeff, take a deep breath and give your brain cells a little oxygen.

I never claimed that specific snakes had or had not been tested for tyrosinase. YOU did.

And I quote: "History: when 2 albino forms of ratsnake were bred together and normals appeared some science was done(really!). At that point they noticed that Tyranosine(sp? lol)was present with 1 albino strain and not with the other hence t- and t plus. "
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

wow! Amazondoc 1 Schofield 0,

Schofield stop while your behind man (lol) I think you might have lost this one bro...dont worry man you still know some stuff about snakes

J.Davis
"The Herpers score keeper"

Amazondoc, is www.whitedobes.com your website?
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.0 Lavender cornsnake
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

>>Amazondoc, is www.whitedobes.com your website?

Yup. Unfortunately, I haven't done anything with it for several years now. Bad me!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Very nice website. I don't have dobies, but have always thought they were beautiful dogs (goes back to the old movie, "The Doberman Gang".)

Reading there about T-plus and T-neg helped me understand it better.
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.0 Lavender cornsnake
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

I'm glad you liked it. One of these days I might even get busy and update it!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

"Now it happened that one was a normal and one was lavender LOOKING"

It was my understanding that the two types looked the same. I could be wrong but this is why I've never put much stock in the T plus thing. If you want to call it that have "the test" done, otherwise its a new line of albino or hypo take. Whatever its called its a very sweet looking critter and I wish the best of luck with the project.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

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