Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know if it is still illegal to road hunt in Texas?

Yes. It is still ILLEGAL to road hunt in Texas.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

You can search for herps all day and night on Texas public roads. You can do so with herps in your vehicle. You can do it with herping equipment in your vehicle. You can "rescue" herps about to be hit by cars and safely release them in the adjacent habitat (according to TPWD's David Sinclair). You can collect invertebrates, cans, rocks, trash and observe wildlife from the road. You can fly your raptors on the road right of way. You can photograph herps found on the road. You can pick up dead herps off the road (according to TPWD's David Sinclair). You are just not allowed to catch and keep live herps found on the road or right of way. And they have to see you doing just that to cite you. You do not have to show documentation of permission to be on private land. You do not have to say or do anything. It is not guilty until proved innocent. The burden of proof is on them. No your rights!

Welkerii

Do you have the assertions from Sinclair in writing? This is counter to what I've heard.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

No I don't which is why I said it the way I did. It was posted somewhere on the forums that he said this (the two items I mentioned he said) was okay. I think someone (Chambers?) emailed him and he wrote back saying those things were allowed. The alterna boys should know. I was hoping whoever got the confirmation would speak up. It would be nice to get it in writing though. I emailed him awhile back wanting written clarification about certain aspects (herps in the car and equipment) of the ban but of course I received zilch. However, if you know your rights and what the law says you should be fine. They have to see you collect a herp from the road for it to stand up in court.

Welkerii

What have you heard?

What have you heard?

ticket written for moving a turtle off the road.

A law enforcement guy (Sinclair) does not have the authority to tell someone what the law "really" means (but that hasn't stopped them from trying, in TX and other states). Either they enforce the law as written or they don't.

What Sinclair can do is put out a policy saying they will not enforce the law in the case of X, where "X" is "kid moving a turtle off the road," "picking up DORs," etc.

My (way out of date) site has the copies of the emails from before the road ban, showing that the TPWD LE guys would not consider road cruising/herping to be "hunting from the road."

We need something similar now, to say they won't consider moving an animal without collecting, or picking up DORs, as running counter to the intent of the road ban and that they won't go after folks doing so.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

I know of persons that ARE permitted to road hunt and they were hassled by TP&W Game Wardens along with local Sheriff.
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Tim Cole
www.austinherpsociety.org
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Yes. I agree. You run the risk of a huge hassle -- detainment, confiscation of personal property, legal expenses, time in court, etc.

Since 9/11, LE are the heroes of our time. Their vigilance on Homeland Security goes unquestioned. Most will accept their side of the argument without a second thought.

If you think it's worth taking those chances, go ahead. You may be right and win in court. So, if your principles dictate you must prove a point. Go ahead and make your point in Court. Win your court case. Set your precedent. Won't make a bit of difference. Just MHO.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

You always run the risk of those in power abusing their power. You can't do much about it. So what are you going to do, lock yourself in your house and never go herping? I am not and most of the alterna, hognose and lep boys, etc aren't either.

If you have enough money for the fight you can win. Get a good lawyer and fight it. Change the law or better yet make your own good laws. Bottom line now is we have to fight and we have to ALL be on the same team. The days of no regulation are gone. We are going to be regulated. It is just what kind of regulation.

Welkerii

There is nothing in Texas worth the trouble in my case. I have no native Texas snakes and don't plan on keeping any.

However, I am doing what I can with my limited resources to get things changed to a more Herper friendly environment.

Wouldn't mind keeping and breeding some of the turtles on a limited basis and to have the ability to sell or trade.

Again, doing what I can to move things along in a more Herper friendly direction.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Here is a link to a photo I just took. I guess it fits into the discussion. It is a DOR TEXAS SLIDER Pseudemys texana from the San Antonio River Basin, Bexar County.

How someone couldn't see this huge female from a mile away and easily avoided her, I'll never know. Must have been on the phone.
The simple fact it is illegal to assist these creatures off the roadway makes the photo germane.

For anyone that ever had a doubt what a genuine bona fide Texas Slider looks like, there's no doubt now. The front limbs are marked with reddish orange and the iris is a beautiful aquamarine blue. The rest speaks for itself. What a shame!

jsc

LINK
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I've lived in Texas for 26 years, and I keep praying that I do not see someone intentionally run over a snake or turtle.

The aftermath will make the news...
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Tim Cole
www.austinherpsociety.org
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Tim, a few years back I witnessed a game warden apparently intentionally run over a suboc on 17 in the Davis. It was a huge snake, mostly in the opposite lane,and he was not driving particularly fast, but he made no move whatsoever to avoid it. Shocking and reprehensible.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

I caught a suboc there in 1970.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

The simple fact it is illegal to assist these creatures off the roadway makes the photo germane.

Here in Fl. it is technically illegal to assist a gopher tortoise across the highway. A friend of mine who had a pet store several years back had a game warden in his store once who felt the need to share this info with him and some of his customers and brag about how he could give someone a ticket for it. I will not name the individual as I am not 100% sure of his identity but I am pretty sure as to whom he is as he has a reputation in the area for hassling reptile keepers.
I do not care what the law says as I live according to my own moral code and obey the govt's laws at my pleasure as to whether or not they conform to my beliefs. I will always help gopher tortoises and other turtles across the road. You would be amazed at how many people on the psychotic florida roadways will stop in the other direction of traffic to help allow you to safe cross the road with a turtle.
I totally live for the day this idiot local game warden crosses my path when I am helping a gopher across the road. I not only hope to get a ticket but I really hope he is dumb enough to arrest me because I am legally entitled to one phone call according to my constitutional rights and that one phone call will be to WKMG. From a legal perspective I may lose and be fined, but from a realistic perspective I will win in the court of public opinion and I will give the fwc here in florida a negative pr. campaign on the level of what texas got with bubbah the javelina in Corpus Christi back in 1985.

By the way Happy Independence Day. Lets do our best to show these pinheads why we told King george III where to stick his friggin tea tax.

Hay Band Man,I like the way you think. Maybe we'll meat up in Daytona, put a name with a face. I'll be the guy with the plane Black Tortoises, come by. Do you write any music? Heres one that apply's to your last message. "Stay free from petty jealousy, Live by no mans code. Hold your judgement for yourself les you wind-up on this road. *BD Kinda of a dubble something another Theirs another one by Hank Williams jr that might fit a country boy. HAPPY 4TH VM

I don't write myself although I have done work on other's originals in the past. I mostly do covers at this point. It's what pays the bills when I am lucky. I will definitely be visiting you're table at Wayne's show and if I manage to get lucky and have some extra coin I'll spend it. Manouria emys have been on my radar for a few years now in regards to a long term project I'm working on. If not at the show then definitely later.

I have to say that, to my surprise, I mostly agree with Welker here. Even though some LE are clearly trying to use this law to intimidate as many herpers as possible-especially in the Border region-that does not mean we should roll over and play dead.

I for one have barely changed my road-cruising habits since the law was passed (I rarely kept anything anyway). I've been stopped quite a few times, but a calm, cooperative attitude-while nonetheless knowing the law and insisting it be followed-has served myself, and others, quite well.

If you voluntarily give up your rights, they will be more than happy to take them from you.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles