Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are pics of the clutch from my orangebelly(yellowbelly) het albino x orangebelly het albino. 8 eggs--1 paradox ivory superstripe looking weirdo--one albino(possibly ob)-ivory poss het albino-4 yellowbellies(one looks like an ob-3 have very little color) and one poss het albino. Neat clutch.

more pics of entire clutch

Very neat clutch! I see a paradox ivory but I don't know how superstripe comes into play there??? Genetically speaking it's impossible.

Nice clutch!
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

genetically speaking its impossible? That is quite an amazing statement--I mean the animal is a paradox, so genetically speaking it could be a normal.

would this be genetically impossible as well?

this is the last paradox I made--it was from breeding my male graphite ivory to a 2 year in a row proven normal female-

Sorry if I offended you Ben. Just saying there is no specter, whirlwind, het SS in your breeding. Simple as that. Unless you forgot to mention that fact.

It's a paradox ivory pos het albino/ poss albino. Simple as that.

Nice snakes, all together!
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

I do have a few spectres a few cages down--maybe some kind of ball python telekenesis happened or possibly free floating sperm dust

Very interesting Ben!

If your statement is accurate then it's not impossible! Bam, there it is!

So, is this a male or female paradox? Have you been able to breed this one?

If the mother is in fact just a "normal" than is it safe to say it's a paradox yellow belly?
There is another term that eludes me right now.... Something "genesis" if I'm not mistaken. Guess that's a possibility too???

All those paradox animals popping out..... It just seems right that a gene would be in play in your collection and others once a little more time passes! Time will tell I guess.

Very neat stuff Ben
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

it is a female and she was sold. I still have her, but she is awaiting an export.

Nice clutch Ben! I really like that paradox ivory. The dark paradox markings do look like the markings of a superstripe . . . .totally weird.
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Alice Cobb
Florida Reptile Room

thanks alice--yeah--it is weird!

Dude, that Paradox is friggin' KILLER! It's a damn shame we can't perpetuate paradox!

all just a paradox. JMO
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Vince Pramuk []__[]

Really? You dont look at that side band photo-the last one on that animal and cant relate that pattern directly to super stripe pattern? I think it looks like it, but whatever-its a paradox--who knows what he is.

If the animal is a chimera. Thats 2 embryos that fuse and form one animal. Like identical twins in reverse. What genes a chimera pass on is a toss up.
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1.0 BP Nicodemus
0.4 Cal Kings 3 alb 1 het Dora Queen Ace Pearl
2.0 Alb Corn Bizaar Elixir
0.0.1 Rev Alb Nelsons Oden?

Ben I have 2 male Paradox Ivory males here BOTH of which do have areas that remind me of a Super Stripe on them BUT they have nothing to do with the Super Stripe. WHY as I said if you would take the time to read and understand the genetics involved the Specter /Whirlwind gene IS AN ALLELE TO YB so that means that no matter how stricking similiar it looks to a Super Stripe it is NOT period..... So Ben do you also think it is possible to make a Super Mojave Lesser or a Super Lesser Mojave or a Super Phantom Mojave or a Super Mystic Lesser??? NONE of those things can be made either WHY because they are alleles that's why.

As for the statement about that snake maybe just ending up a normal, if you look at it's eyes and they aren't normal looking eyes then it is a Ivory not a normal, just likely has another NON YB , NON Whirlwind/Specter gene in it as well.

Anthony McCain

First off Anthony--Relax---no one is calling my snake a superstripe---It does look like it has a section of super stripe on it, so I am calling it the weird looking paradox ivory super stripe thing. If you have a couple of paradox with similar patterning, I would love to see them as I am sure we all would. We are al ball python enthusiasts here.

So what you are saying is the following, just so I am perfectly clear.

Even thought my snake has a section of pattern on it that totally looks like a super stripe it is not superstripe pattern even though by your own admission you also think that the section of pattern looks like a superstripe. So even though I am making no claim that this animal is a superstripe and you also think it looks that way--it is not a superstripe. OK __GOT IT ANTHONY__I UNDERSTAND NOW_-I will officially change the name to the paradox ivory false superstripe possible normal and yellowbelly 66% possible het albino.

now let me ask you---If a snake is mostly normal, but has a couple patches of albino pattern on it, would it be called a paradox albino? SO AGAIN__VISUALLY SPEAKING--JUST JUDGING BY THE LOOKS OF THE ANIMAL THAT HATCHED OUT OF MY EGG-
I see on this particular serpent--sections that look like an ivory--sections that look like a normal/yb and sections that look like a super stripe--so therefore I called it a paradox ivory superstripe---no false claims--no broken promises--just a name for a snake that I hatched out. There are no confirmed genetics on paradox animals. Thats why they are called paradoxes-

and to answer your question--of course I do not think there could be a super lesser mojave-

but on the same note do you think it would be genetically impossible to have a paradox leucy lesser mojave?

Ben my point is that some of these Paradox's WILL end up having another NON related gene showing thru on the Super.. Do you think a Black Pastel Ivory will just look like a normal Ivory or does it seem possible to you that perhaps the Black Pastel may "bleed thru" and become visible on the Ivory. Or for example do you think a Sable Ivory will just look like a regular Ivory. What about a Super Sable Ivory , think that will just look like a regular Ivory? VPI made a Paradox Ivory and it was from a Fire Yb x Yb/Ivory breeding , to me that paradox IS a Fire Ivory BUT most of you would just call it a Paradox instead to me that Fire gene is coming thru and because we already know that Fire and Yb aren't alleles to me it makes alot of sense. Not sure why it's so hard for people to get this when it's obvious that an Ivory isn't a true leucistic anyway , which makes it QUITE possible for other colors or patterns to show up on an Ivory logically speaking anyway. The fact that a Super Stripe can even be made tells us something about the Ivory gene as the ONLY other snake that comes close to letting color and pattern pass thru when the proper gene on the same allele (Mystic) is used is the Mojave gene (making the Potion), once again Mojave is NOT a true white snake either, it has yellow and a grey head it is NOT a true white snake either. So to me having Ivories with color and or pattern is NOT hard to believe at all, it's just that IF the color/pattern IS genetic AT ALL it MUST be a non Allele of Yb as otherwise it isn't possible for it to even be present on an Ivory , just like it isn't possible to make a Super Lesser Mojave. And yes you can have Paradox stuff in the BEL complex too , not saying that isn't likely. TSK has Paradox Super Mojaves and in time I bet they will prove that the "Paradox" that is showing is IN FACT a non allele to BEL if it is a genetic trait at all because it can't be genetic at all if it's on a Super Mojave and the gene is an allele to Mojave . THIS IS MY POINT BEN....

Here's a couple pics..

Anthony McCain

If you look close at the pic with the Paradox Ivory and Paradox Black Eyed Leucistic you'll notice that the White on the Black Eyed (one with peppered cream running down her back) is VERY white . The Ivory Paradox is NOT white and he is an "off white", alot like the color of vanilla yogurt ice cream actually . In the right light he looks like a faint Puma actually BUT he is not, nor is he a Super Stripe, he is an Ivory. I won't be surprised if he is carrying another gene, BUT it won't be an allele to Yb if it proves to be genetic. Even if the Paradox is nongenetic I'd still think he is as good for breeding as any regular Ivory as I doubt he produces Normals when bred out and if he does make Normal looking babies ( say they look more like normals than YB's that is) I'll be holding back several of his daughters to linebreed back to the Paradox Ivory dad and also to breed to my other Paradox Ivory to see if anything lines up that way. No harm in trying the way I see it, could be something there, that part I agree with you on Ben.

Anthony McCain

Love that Super Fire Anthony! Wish I could see her more often!
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

Congrats Ben on the paradox super stripe freak. That's a keeper for sure. You always seem to produce something crazy each year. 2008- Parodox ivory, 2009- Riddler Ball? Now this.. Keep up the good work. I'm still waiting to produce our first crazy looking freak. Just hatched out a really nice (1) eyed calico who seems to be perfect in every other way, greater eater, but nothing crazy yet.

-Jay

Correction- Congrats on the "Paradox Ivory False Superstripe possible Normal or Yellowbelly & 66% het Albino Weirdo" Man, that's a mouthfull. Super cool snake to be proud of producing.
-Jay

That paradox is unbelievable! Congrats on such a diverse clutch. Keep up the great work.
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Scott Priester
Brookside Reptiles