Reptile & Amphibian Forums

One thing I miss about the whole snake breeder thing is the trek to Daytona, as much for the party as the sales... but once again I am sitting this one out. I won't get into the majority of reasons but for those who have known me for a while now you probably recall me trying to get back into music. Well I have some cool clutches on the ground but music is my main focus at the moment. My chances of making it to the show even just to hang out are slim to none, so have fun and good luck.

Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

I don't know yet if i am going to sit this one out yet. I puroposly did not get a table because last years expo was so bad. Not just because of the economy but the new building sucked and the regulars did not show. The food court in the middle of the expo. It felt more like a circus fair. Lots a newbies with low end snakes got tables as well..

I am thinking this years expo will be worse than last, even though the economy has recovered a bit. If the people don't come and the venue is not appealing. What's left?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Come one Rainer.....I don't vend there but it wasn't THAT bad....LOL

And Tom....I sure wish we could all get together there again....Those were the best times......

If folks keep not going it is just going to get worse.....

My wife and I are definitely headed there again this year......

Since I have gotten into some cool lizards and torts it will make it even more fun for us.....

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

John,
Are you breeding those arboreal alligator lizards?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Yes sir....
I just got a female today......

I plan on getting all of the available subspecies.......
They are as addicting as my Mexicana and Montane kingsnakes.....
And they fit in with my cool temps in my snake room.....

Plus they are from Mexico....I have a thing for Mexican reptiles......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I have to say I never really seen them before, you posted them.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Abronia Graminea (Mexican Arboreal Alligator Lizard)
Check out projectabronia.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Hey John,

Please put me on your waiting list for those graminea. They are quite possibly the coolest lizards on the planet. Selling my pair stands as one of my top 5 herpin' mistakes of all time. Thanks man.

Will

>>John,
>>Are you breeding those arboreal alligator lizards?

And....If they breed this summer the babies will not be born until the Spring of next year.......

Oh yeah....They have live birth....anywhere from 4 to 14 babies about 1.5" long......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

What kind of care do they take ? Temps? Food? substrate? Do they stay hidden or do they stay in plain veiw?
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>What kind of care do they take ? Temps? Food? substrate? Do they stay hidden or do they stay in plain veiw?

Email me Rainer......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I personally don't care if it does get worse. I always did OK, but I saw friends invest a lot of time and money in that show and take home all the animals they dragged into there right back home.
People used to go to these shows with intent on getting exactly what they want [since there's everything you could want] and they'd know they'd get a good deal. What it turned into is a room full of potential customers who want to name thier own prices and scoff at animals that took years to produce.
The cost for me to get there, get a room, the FL permit, table fee, and all expenses was bad enough when things were good. Now the trip would turn into a big expense that means if I don't sell my best animals cheaper than I want to the trip is coming out of pocket.
I may do a show or two, but not that one. No way.
Too many Ball Python nerds, and other colubrid breeders who unload their animals at wholesale.
In 2004 and I spent 6000 bucks on animals from that show, the people spending that kind of money are few and far between. I am not going to stop breeding snakes, but I am not going to participate in a show that costs this much and takes this much time. I am glad I didnt go last year, and I wont be going any time soon until things pick up again...if ever
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

am glad I didnt go last year, and I wont be going any time soon until things pick up again...if ever

Unless you have money to throw away on a REPTILE EXPO vacation that is a wise decision my friend. I think I will take that advice.

I think it will be 5-7 years before things get back to where it was.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Looking back, the year there was the Hurricaine seemed to be better than last year from what I heard.
I just don't know what to think, but over production is something I always avoided. I cannot afford to go the wholesale route with the amount of animals I produce. I see the same thing going on at local shows. I have seen one guy who was actualy an inspiration for me sit there with tables full of snakes reading a book in boredom.
I think keeping snakes as pets is at an all time high. But the ease in aquiring them has changed everything so much that it robs the fun out of attending the shows.
Anyone reading this who wants to go to show as buyer, I totally encourage that, shopping at a big event can be a lot of fun. However driving from TX to FL with a carload of live animals is no easy task and it aint in the cards for me this year
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

"I think keeping snakes as pets is at an all time high"

No doubt about it!. And ironically over the past decade, the internet has shown just about every "Joe Blow" that is even REMOTELY interested in snakes exactly just how easy it is to breed some of the many types of snakes.

Sure, it is great for lots of people to get into this great hobby of ours, but when EVERYONE wants to breed them and they are introduced into the market, it can also create it's own set of major problems too, as we are starting to clearly see as of late. As you certainly already know Tom, the market of anything can only bear so much saturation until it begins to collapse on itself and go actually go the opposite way.

And of course, the overal economy is also giving this phenomenon a big "kick in the pants" too.

History dictates that similar situations do tend to balance out after a while, but after all time highs, there is nowhere else to go but down..........and sometimes like a ton of bricks!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Not from anyone in particular,,,,,,

Buy a co dom male and as many normal or morph females as you can....

Look at the hobby now. Don't get me wrong, Everyone is entitled to enjoy breeding reptiles and I encourage that but i saw some disasters unfold on people who "got in" at the wrong time.

Come to think of it, every year when inventory is low I see many people who care not for what sex snake they're buying. There seems to be way too many breeders, but people still discover snakes as a possibility for a pet every day so we will just have to hope things balance out in the future,
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

As you certainly already know Tom, the market of anything can only bear so much saturation until it begins to collapse on itself and go actually go the opposite way.

Funny thing is that this has not happened to the Ball Pythons market yet. Everybody I knew did well with them last year.

people are still raking it on on just the Peibalds alone.

I wonder how much longer this is going to last...sheesh
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www.Bluerosy.com

Yeah. The fact that if someone sees a different colored scale on a Ball Python, it immediately becomes the latest "morph" may have something to do with that particular market..LMAO!

Because even Piebalds can easily become the next "amel corn" given enough time.

Heck, as you well know, not long ago, the amel nelsoni were $2,000 bucks. Now some folks can hardly give them away at shows for $25..LOL!

Again, supply and demand strikes again!..LOL!

Anyway, I think it is important to enjoy it as much as possible, regardless of any of this stuff.

Oh well, life goes on I guess..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

In fact I'm having a blast! Since I got back into the game I have been able to get animals that I always wanted for a fraction of their cost years ago. I'm not gonna get rich, but I'm having fun. I have a job, and I'm making ends meet. Cheers!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

LOL!,....I hear ya bro!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

and the government ends up ruling every aspect of our lives, we might bounce back. This could actually be a good thing cause many people who thought they were gonna make some easy money will just drop out and fade away. It will take a few years to absorb all these animals in the market. But there are new enthusiasts coming in every year. Those that do this for passion of snakes will survive, I think.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

......the market striking a self "balance" in time, no matter what, you simply cannot produce far more product than a particular market can bear, or something has to(and will) give. Then after it gives, whoever enjoys it the most, and really WANTS to continue doing it will be the one's left standing......simple as that.

Actually, this is also similar to why certain animals have gone extinct over vast amounts of time.

This is the true dynamics of ANY supply and demand situation.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

However driving from TX to FL with a carload of live animals is no easy task and it aint in the cards for me this year

That is why they invented airplanes Tom.LOL! (inside j/k)

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www.Bluerosy.com

Actually, I flew last year and this year, both times to MD for a huge metal show.
I still hate it
And drive EVERYWHERE anytime I can haha
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

If they don't cap that freakin gushing oil catastrophe soon, snakes might not be so important to ANYONE!.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Sorry to hear you won't have a table this year but if you make it down maybe our paths will cross.

Well tom, will miss you down there. However if you get to touring, I am sure we can hook up when you hit the midwest.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

To compare where herptoculture is to the fish keeping world that precedes us? Large proffessional breeders being the primary source?

On a similar note, I have an Austrian friend in his eighties that was breeding a lot of things YEARS before they were popular like Leapord geckos and bearded dragons, shinasaurs etc. Very large museum type cages through out his cellar. He stopped doing/ going to shows years ago because he got tired of the money aspect. Not that he saw anything wrong with selling animals. He was more offended at the sheer cost that animals were commanding. He came from a world where serious hobbyists traded each other for animals and kept them for the pure love of the particular animal.

Meaning to tread respectfully here to you guys who are trying to do this for a bussiness/make money. Just wondering too where the hobby is evolving.