Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I keep a few colubrids, and mostly ball pythons, but I couldn't pass up on a beautiful pair of Albino Sonoran Gophers yesterday at the Repticon Atlanta show. Ben Siegel had them and said that he acquired them from Matt Turner.

I've been reading up on them voraciously since I got home yesterday and today, and of course getting more confused about the difference between gophers and bulls. And not being pit savy enough, their patterning looks more like the bull examples I'm seeing. Are these pictures good enough to tell for sure? These are the only two pictures taken so far of either of them - this is the female. The male's markings are the same, just a bit deeper and richer in color.

Both are absolute gems to handle and I'm in love already and I'm looking forward to working with them. I don't know if I'll ever breed them, I didn't acquire a pair for the express purpose of doing so - but more because I just couldn't decide between the two - and if I decide I like working with them enough, then breeding isn't out of the realm of possibility a few years from now.

So - all you good folks, what do you think?

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Robins Nest Reptiles

Welcome to the "Pituophis" forum and nice looking P.c. affinis. Sonoran's, by-the-way, are not that distant genetically, from bulls (share adjacent range, huge contact zone, intergrade zone, etc.) so your initial confusion is understandable. A fair number of Arizona residents refer to Sonoran's as "bullsnakes" and at one time, a common vernacular for the Sonoran was "Arizona bullsnake". Here's a typical Sonoran from southwestern AZ...

Thanks so much! Can you recommend a good caresheet somewhere for these guys?
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Robins Nest Reptiles

The best info resides within this forum. For starters, learn from the experience of others and start here...
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1818520,1818520

Also look here...
http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Bull-Pine-GopherSnakes/index.html

May take you a few days and lots of "post reading" but you'll learn a lot from everyone

Absolutely - that's how I tend to learn about a new species is to head to that species' specific forum and soak in from the knowledge of experienced keepers and ask questions. Thanks for the links!
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Robins Nest Reptiles

http://www.kingsnake.com/pituophis/p_c_affinis.html

http://www.webspawner.com/users/dete/breedingpituoph.html
http://slitherbriggs.webs.com/pcaffinis.htm

Also, as has been already mentioned, there are many Masters here in this forum willing to help the Grasshoppers.

Very pretty Sonorans! These are very hardy snakes; you should do well with them.

Thanks for the links - and I do plan to hang out here and learn from you guys!

They are awesome critters, I absolutely am in love with them. They eat like nothing else I have - I fed them f/t mice off the tongs yesterday and they don't strike as much as just bite down and look at you like "ok - you can let go - I'll take it from here"
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Robins Nest Reptiles

Congratulations on your new purchases and your introduction to pits! I am sure you will be thrilled for years on your recent purchase!
Those albino Sonoran gophers are remarkable, and in my opinon, albino Sonorans are among the prettiest of all albino snakes. You picked some real winners!
Please keep us posted with pics!
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Genesis 1:1

Thank you so much - I will definitely keep you guys posted. Based on the pictures - is there any idea of approximately how old they may be? The female weighed 146 grams empty and the male 148 grams empty. I know a lot depends on how much they were fed and how they were fed prior to me acquiring them - but I'm not sure how big they are when they hatch. Safe to say they are probably about a year old assuming that they were fed on a regular schedule?
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Robins Nest Reptiles

I think it is safe to say that they are at least yearlings, from first glance of your pics.

Very pretty snakes!!
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Genesis 1:1

Congrats. You couldn't have picked a better snake genus to get into. The guys on this forum are great and very knowledgeable. Sonorans are awesome. I saw my first live one in the wild this past April. They get big and they like to eat. A few of my friends keep WC Sonorans, and they all have attitudes (snakes, not my friends.) The Latin name for Sonorans P.c. affinis was said to have been given to them for their affinity (likeness) to Bulls. Of all the Pit ssp. Gophers are my faves.

reako45

Thanks reako! I may have lucked out - or they're just still young - but they are both very relaxed and laid back. I'm crazy in love with them and just hanging out here and absorbing the knowledge being shared here.

I do have a question - are there any good breeder sites to go to? I've been googling looking for more and more images of the affini's and I'd like to find some good breeder sites to check out their collections.
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Robins Nest Reptiles

Robin,

There are a few breeders out there that dabble in Sonorans but in most cases, specifically with untypical or locality individuals, morphs or albinos. Gophers generally are not as popular in the pet trade as pines and bulls (see the small poll that I did below in May). So my view of Sonoran's (as the number one, must have Pit) is not necessarily shared by the broader range of Pituophis enthusiasts.

As for breeders, I like the Sonoran lines produced at Home Grown Herps. They have some normal adults that I find particularly attractive (the eye of the beholder thing in play agsin here). Others may beg to differ, but breeding is an art form to many and is all about appeal. Jason Nelson has some attractive locality Sonorans and morphs and there are others. You have to snoop around some and find the individuals that appeal most to you. That's part of what makes this hobby so much fun...