Reptile & Amphibian Forums

colubrids anymore? I'm just curious as to wether it is still possible to do so? Would you recommend someone spending 5k on breeding stock or is it a losing proposition?

Yes, there are plenty of people making a profit breeding colubrids - some people even make a living doing it. In order to make decent money, you need to produce higher end (relatively expensive) animals...or a whole lotta moderately-priced snakes.

Tim

Third Eye

>>Yes, there are plenty of people making a profit breeding colubrids - some people even make a living doing it. In order to make decent money, you need to produce higher end (relatively expensive) animals...or a whole lotta moderately-priced snakes.

You could do that and them be stuck with lots of mouths to feed.....Or......
Make sure you market them and create clients to purchase them.....

I'm just happy I am in a hobby that pays for itself....Any "extra" money is definitely a plus......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Tim, I'd think with today's colubrids prices, raising your own rodents would be essential, too.

Raising mice is also time consuming and takes attention to detail, and would not be practical in an urban setting; what to do with the huge amounts of compostable material a large mouse colony produces, and the mice do tend to smell no matter how clean you keep the mousery. I raise crickets as well as mice, and trade with a local pet store for feed. I also sell my surplus mice to a couple other snake fanciers. This all pays for my hobby. I think if I lived in an urban setting instead of out here in the woods, I'd just buy very large orders of fts from a commercial rodent farm. Mice are sort of like chickens; you have to have a place to keep them that wont bother the neighbors!

Raising mice is real impractical. I do not live on enough land to have an outbuilding for raising mice. I also like to take 2 week trips out of town... mice do fine in the freezer, but I don't think live mice would be able to go unattended that long.

As far as my captive-bred snake business, the only thing that keeps me from turning a profit is that I put a lot of money/vehicle miles into collecting unique breeding stock. I would easily turn a profit if I just stayed home and bred what I already have.

As far as my captive-bred snake business, the only thing that keeps me from turning a profit is that I put a lot of money/vehicle miles into collecting unique breeding stock. I would easily turn a profit if I just stayed home and bred what I already have.

What are you looking for that takes up all the vehicle/money miles?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Mostly it is unique locality kings from the Southeast. Wide-banded eastern kings, Apalachicola kings, brooks kings, and intergrades. There are other species I target as well, but my main thing is kings.

There is a lot of stuff in the wild, particularly with kings, that breeders have yet to tap in to. Some of the stuff I find only appeals to a limited market of locality breeders, while others have some serious designer appeal, as well as locality appeal.

Like you've all said. The smell, bedding,quality food. time, smell. No matter how often you clean they stink quickly. Used exhaust fan over cages and cleaned often. As I've gotten older I find myself getting tired of snake stink at times too.

My small freezer in the cellar is WAY nicer. You also can have a life!

Did I mention the smell?

I guess if your going to go full boat for a business instead of some moderate size personal collection where you breed a bit on the side you may HAVE to raise your own.

Terry,

I'm allergic to those dang things! I've been making a profit for 15 years straight and not breeding mice. Making a living, well that's another story. I think I'd need to breed mice just to insure constant food availability - especially when outside sources run low in the summer months and for those snakes that are live-only feeders.

Tim

Hi Terry,

I've been doing pretty well with colubrids for a long time, however I gave up on long term rodent colonies years ago. Too much time and stink. However, right about this time of the year I set up a temporary colony to start the baby kings and pythons on live mice. Once they are all established on f/t, I feed off the colony and go back to Rodentpro.

Will

be selective dont rush! let your animals mature at a regular rate of groth....buy from reputible breeders! pay a little more! save cash by building your own racks!

ABOVE ALL HAVE FUN WITH IT!

GOOD LUCK
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www.myspace.com/apabana

There was just a thread below which touched on this subject. It can be done but it is just harder now. You have to find the right animals that will keep their value and still be in demand. I believe you also have to get creative and vigilant with advertising and exposure. Find a nitch or have a angle not many have. But if you are not passionate about doing it then forget it. I think it is peoples passions which fuel their success and that means doing it even if you might not make a lot of money. Most breeders are seeing dificult times because the market is flooded and the economy is horrible. Let's face it any 12 year old kid can figure out how to turn two snakes into twelve. But there are still some guys who have stock that rises above and is worth the extra cost. I'm sure you are gonna get a wide array of answers to this question, but passion is the key.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yep, many factors come into play here, so it of course depends on many of these things. Those key factors you mentioned are definitely some of what drives the "big wheel" of the hobby/industry.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>colubrids anymore? I'm just curious as to wether it is still possible to do so? Would you recommend someone spending 5k on breeding stock or is it a losing proposition?

Making a living at breeding colubrids is being done to this day but I believe a newbie trying to come into this thinking that they could make a living is a "dream."

A wise person in the business once told me...."You cannot and will not get rich off of something that someone else already did...."

Example.....
I could spend $800 for a pair of thayeri hatchlings from Tim Gebhart at Vivid Reptiles and produce awesome offspring from them, but I could never get $400 a piece for the offspring because my name is not Tim Gebhart........

Those that have made a name for themselves can sustain in the business........

And Jorge made a great point....You gotta have a passion for the snakes....and not just look at the dollar signs.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Whether attempting to be a serious breeder or the majority of us who are long term hobbyists. I wish you guys who are trying to breed for a living the best.

An unfortunate thing I observed at a recent show (White Plains) that I'm sure all of us see, was folks that were clearly buying stuff like cotton candy at a fair. Made me wonder about the longterm survival of the animals. Sometimes folks that get involved that way turn into serious hobbyists but I wonder how many just wither and die on a coffee table. It's unpopular to talk about, but is it always a good thing the hobby is getting mainstream? Are we inadvertantly providing disposable pets? Do many of you see your progeny years later and feel good about it?

It is a major down side to me with the lower cost snakes, that they may not be properly care for. I put a lot of effort into raising healthy hatchlings, regardless of their value, so yeah, I worry about that.

I have a coastal phase cal king I picked up from the animal shelter. He'd been left in an apartment and was nearly starved.

But then, again, I think of my old 15 year old amel cornsnake, Miss Pink, I got from family friends after they had her 7-8 years. She's always been loved and cared for. Gives me a tiny bit of hope.
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Amy Claiborne

Don't let them take your wasted time. J.T.

I've been wondering about just who buys those high end herps?

Is it other breeders, or specific enthusiasts? Seems that limits your market. Sure, there are a lot of us out there, but there is a limit. I don't see the general public buying a $150 kingsnake when a $50 albino cal king will do.

I've been wondering, for instance, for all those expensive ball python morphs, does anyone actually buy them, or are the breeders just swapping them back and forth? Looks to me like that market is flooded. Do they just sell to people new in the business thinking they're gonna make a buck by breeding and selling high end morphs?

This, of course, relates to other species as well.

I would guess that if your market is the general public you would produce lots of albino corns and kings, but if you are targeting specific enthusiasts you would produce fewer of those snakes that are less common, harder to care for, or 'special' morphs.

What are your thoughts?
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Amy Claiborne

Don't let them take your wasted time. J.T.

Amy....
I don't think a $150 kingsnake rates high end.....

And...I would have to say that 95% of what I produce is sold to other breeders/collectors in the hobby.......
The other 5% is sold to relatively newbies and I hate thinking that I will never know how long they will make it......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I'm sorry, John. I didn't mean to offend. I know your stock is high end and very special. Guess the $150 was a bad figure, but I was typing and thinking fast at the time.

Just wondering how much the high end market is growing, if at all. Concerned about saturation if the growth isn't there. I know things have taken off in the last twenty years or so (and I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong, LOL), but with not knowing what the economy will do, and with the new laws, it's a real concern.
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Amy Claiborne

Don't let them take your wasted time. J.T.

Just wondering how much the high end market is growing, if at all. Concerned about saturation if the growth isn't there. I know things have taken off in the last twenty years or so (and I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong, LOL), but with not knowing what the economy will do, and with the new laws, it's a real concern

it isn't saturation and growth. it is just that people only have so much to spend at a given time of year. if you expect to dump all your offspring within 2 months of hatching, then I advice don't get into higher end snakes.

If you are pateint and wait. For tax return season for example. People will have the money to buy more snakes.

Lets say you have $1000. to spend on snake this summer. But there are $2000. worth of snakes you definetly want. So you buy certain ones first and then wait a few months to get more money and buy the others.

We all want nice high end reptiles. Thing is our money is not always there during hatchling season.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Spreading out is nice but buyers also know that the BEST animals are bought first, no matter the cost. Better animals produce better babies($$). If you have X to spend, best to spend it on the harder to find/one of a kind thing right away because it wont be around when you get money again.

Am I the only one who hates beginners graduating from $5 corns to hi-end kings....only to bring their tire-kicking with them? If you want to get the best stuff PAY for it! I know that haggling right away, before you have even met me, will put me off. Do I "lowball"? You either have great animals or a great name behind you or both. It doenst mean anything otherwise.

>>I'm sorry, John. I didn't mean to offend. I know your stock is high end and very special. Guess the $150 was a bad figure, but I was typing and thinking fast at the time.
>>
>>Just wondering how much the high end market is growing, if at all. Concerned about saturation if the growth isn't there. I know things have taken off in the last twenty years or so (and I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong, LOL), but with not knowing what the economy will do, and with the new laws, it's a real concern.

Amy...
I wasn't offended at all...Sorry if it came across that way when you read it.....
I was just saying that a lot of low end snakes are around $150 in my opinion....When I think high end I think of a higher price.....

I agree that the economy plays a major role in buying power....Saturation is a problem when breeders don't want to hold onto their snakes for very long....They hatch and feed then are sold at low prices just to get them out of the breeders' hands.......If one of my snakes don't sale immediately I will keep it until it does and not lower the price but eventually raise the price because it took time, money and effort to raise.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

One of the things to consider in the super high end market is the fact that a super high end morphs cost the same to house and feed as normal morphs. Take ball pythons for example. The breeder doesnt have any more costs associated with KEEPING the high end babies til sold than if they were all normals. So, the game appears to be one of patience. Also, much fewer babies are required to be sold to recoup costs when dealing with high end morphs. The game can be played in the opposite direction as well. Mass produce thousands of lower end animals and wholesale. If I can sell 1,000 babies wholesale for 10 bucks each, thats quite a bit of jack in my pocket!!

Many have stated that if you go the route of a business, then you need to run it like a business. And with all businesses, there is risk, and a lot of HARD work establishing markets, making contacts, finding your sales outlets. If you try to make a living doing the same local show over and over again and nothing more, than you are probably not trying hard enough IMO.

Luckily for me I still consider this a hobby!! I tell my wife all the time I could be throwing money away playing golf. Green fees, drinks with the fellas, buying the latest and greatest golf equipment and clubs, etc. At least I have the opportunity with sales to offset some of the costs for my hobby LOL!!

"At least I have the opportunity with sales to offset some of the costs for my hobby LOL!!"

I used to say that too. It's always pretty much been a money losing proposition for me but it keeps me off the streets. LOL

but I got to tell the wifey something to justify the loss LOL!! Actually, not really. She is very supportive in spirit and realizes this is my hobby and something I very much enjoy.

Kidding aside, I think wives appreciate knowing their husbands are down in the cellar cleaning cages. You just have to come upstairs sometimes to be part of the family otherwise you squash that positive point. Ha.

The other 5% is sold to relatively newbies and I hate thinking that I will never know how long they will make it......
I like to send email updates on my snakes to the folks I got them from with photos and how the snakes are doing. Everyone appreciates this. It is most satisfying to be able to provide a photo of that tiny hatchling two years later and show the breeder how nice it has become. I am currently waiting for my breeder of my pyros to get his '10 babies hatched! Although the economy is terrible, I will find a way to buy another snake from him even if I have to count all the nickles and dimes in my spare change jars! LOL!

Yes, I really enjoy seeing pics of snake's that I have sold in the past to folks. Even just verbal updates are great.

I am ALWAYS interested about how, and what people do with them over the long-haul. I just responded to an email last night from Shannon Brown about showing me some recent pics of my stuff he acquired a while ago.

Progression shots of different stages of their growth is awesome to see!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Yes, I really enjoy seeing pics of snake's that I have sold in the past to folks. Even just verbal updates are great.
>>
>>I am ALWAYS interested about how, and what people do with them over the long-haul. I just responded to an email last night from Shannon Brown about showing me some recent pics of my stuff he acquired a while ago.
>>
>>Progression shots of different stages of their growth is awesome to see!

I agree....But that is part of that 95% I was talking about....LOL

A guy purchased a pair of thayeri off my table in Austin back in 2005 produced an awesome double clutch last year.....I was dying to get some of my old bloodlines back in my collection but he dropped off the face of the earth this year.....

I hate to think about the other 5%....You know....The ones that you don't even know if it made the car ride home......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I hate to think about the other 5%....You know....The ones that you don't even know if it made the car ride home......
A general rule of thumb is the more people have to pay for something the more likely they are to take good care of it. I think most Thayeri get a good home because they are expensive, but the poor little $10 non feeder corn snake babies I saw at the last reptile show; I wonder if any of those are even still alive.

That's nice. I like to do that, too. Even if just a short email letting them know how much they've grown, etc.

I know it always thrills me when someone reports good things to me on one of the snakes they bought from me.
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Amy Claiborne

Don't let them take your wasted time. J.T.

Hey, I'm not kidding. That change is really helpful when I order frozen mice.LOL

I used to fret about the expense of shipping but I realized that when you go to a show to pick up mice theres the expense of time, gas, entrance fee for family, trinkets, and lunches. (dinner on a long trip?) Then they thaw a bit even if you fill a cooler with ice (dry ice better/never remember and also an expense) If I'm not going specifically to look for an animal for a potential project or for the fun of just gawking at animals, the cost of shipping is not so bad at all!

Do group orders and split the shipping......
I order with 2 or 3 buddies of mine here in Corpus....
Splitting the shipping 3 or 4 ways is KILLER.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I just split shipping on an order to RodentPro...the only problem is I had to cut back on MY order to keep it down to 1 box, or it would have been useless to split the shipping cost.
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Greg Jackson

I never order less than 2 boxes at a go. Fills my little freezer perfectly
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I've been using Rodent Pro for the last few times and it's been a good experience. Clean neat and orderly. Helpful and respectful folks.

Rodent Pro is the bomb. Mice Direct not so.
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www.Bluerosy.com

How long have you been using them if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not him, but I've been using them since I was about 17, 9 years. Usually pretty good. I actually like the packaging from Mouse Factory a bit more (vacuum sealed) but they're a lot pricier and I don't keep feeders around long enough for the air tight ness to matter.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I have only been using Rodent pro for about 3 years. But they have the best customer service and that goes a long way with me. Never dissapointed with the size of mice i am ordering. Iused to get my mice from someone else. But man, having someone asnwer the phone and having great communications skills and fast packing and shipping. Can't be beat IMO.

Also check out their chicks at .12 cents each.

i have used scores of other mouse breeders.I even try some others from time to time. That has always been a mistake. These guys are top notch professionals and deserve my business.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Thanks. I appreciate that. Hearing what somones experience is longterm says alot. I would have to agree with seeing the same things in my brief experience.

for sure, I've been using Rodent Pro for the past 5 years and they've yet to let me down once. One time there was probably 2 dozen pinkies broken in half in the one bag, and I said something about it and they gave me 100 free ones the next time I ordered. Great people.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

That's so right!

If you really keep a close tally on every single aspect of rodent cost to get, or raise them yourself, it is quite surprising sometimes..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Seriously the shipping on large rabbits is evil. You can fit 3 in a box that cost 40 to ship. It's why I don't have more retics...just expensive to feed with shipping and all. For mice shipping is trivial but for jumbo rats or bigger it starts hurting.

If I can find a good locals ource of chickens or rabbits that'll be nice.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I love to order off the Internet (after extensive research and communication with the seller, of course) and when the UPS or FedEx truck pulls in the driveway with my package it is like being a little kid on Christmas morning! The only thing better than that is living close enough to the breeder so as to have only a short drive.

A few of us from the Chicago Herp Society go in on a group order. We are close enough and our order is big enough that we actually pick up. I did a blog post on it when I did the pick up. Seriously it is worth getting together with friends on shipping (or in our case pick up, for our order was $600.00)
Cindy's rodent pick up post

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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

I will start offering a 5-10% sale price for those who take pics and send them to me regularly. That would help me 2 fold....1, if would mean I wouldnt have to take and post as many pics(we know how much I LOVE to do that!). And 2--it would be a happy customer checking in...which is great for PR!

So how would that work? Would you offer the discount upon purchase and have as as an act of faith that the buyers would in the future send you update pics? Or would you refund a portion of the original price upon receiving the update pics?

of course! That's how they do it at all the restaurants, lol. But it is a good ideah actually. It just needs to be worked out.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I've never sent breeders photos just cause I imagine they're busy and don't want to be bothered (though for facebook using breeders I'll post on their walls).
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Hi Amy,

I breed both kingsnakes and ball pythons and every year I am surprised by the number of folks that come out of the wood work to purchase high end snakes. Most of my kingsnake sales are to other breeders, but a growing number come from first time keepers. My eastern kings range from $100.00-$400.00 each and I have been fortunate to sell out every year that I have offered them (for the NJs and GAs about 10 years going now). In fact about half are pre-sold/reserved before the clutches hatch.

The ball python morphs also sell out every year, but as Rainer stated, it helps if the breeder is prepared to hold onto the juveniles until tax return time, as snakes sales accelerate when people get there refund checks. It is also very helpful if the breeder has a good relationship with local retailers as many pet stores are willing to shell out big dollars to purchase a large package deal of various ball python morphs a few times a year. Ball python prices have finally dropped enough to where pet stores can buy them with a quantity discount and still have room for a good mark up.

The days of making a killing selling high dollar snakes are gone, but if breeders offer uncommon and/or very attractive animals they should continue to do well.

Will

Thanks, Will. I've seen some of those kings of yours on here and they're gorgeous.
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Amy Claiborne

Don't let them take your wasted time. J.T.

Yes i do. I make a living off of Florida king morphs alone.

I think there are 3 or maybe 4 good investment coubrids.

Hognoses
Florida king morphs
..and possibly scaleless ratsnakes.

not sure yet on the scaless ratsnakes but my guess is once they are bred into the vairious cornsnake morphs they will be irresistible to folks once the price drops to around $300. each. And you can produce A LOT of them.

As far as investments. The Ball python people who mortaged there homes to buy into the Ball python craze came out smelling like roses.

Everything is a risk. Especially when it comes to animals and the fact they can die or not produce. That is why it is better to get large groups rather than just 1.1 or 1.2. You must have backup males and several females. I highly reccomend pos hets like 66% and 50% possible hets with a male visual. I think heterozygous snakes are the best investment in herpetoculture. Once you prove out a female you can raise the visual male up and breed it back to the mom and get 50% visuals. They never stop paying off.

If you are going to do this to make a profit or a living, its gonna be work. A lot of work!!!

So nothing comes easy. If you have a passion for the prticualr animals that you are working with (as i do), it makes it easier. I never cared for ball pythons so that is why i never got into them. But if you like them or Florida kings, Hognoses, scaleless ratsnakes etc. I would choose the type of snake you have a passion for first. Then think about investing and making a profit. It makes life easier rather than just breeding for profit.

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www.Bluerosy.com

It depends on your objective and your stock. Many feel the midsized hobbyist/breeder days are over as far as making money. The economy is dismal and the market is flooded. I would say either go HUGE and try to market the moderate priced animals to the wholesalers, etc., or stay specialized and concentrate on a specialized market. Many are seeing the "death" of the midsized breeders who work with mid priced animals. Even the large chains are selling corn morphs at breeder direct competetive prices. The moderate priced specimens that the large chains are selling at higher prices just arent popular anymore IMO, and even the chains are having a hard time moving them. The new crop of herpers appear to go for visual and are not interested in where the animals come from, or their ecology/environments. I do notice that most of the cheaper boas and pythons are still good sellers at shows though. Tons of $20 ball pythons and $45 common boas are still being bought IMO.

I have a Tax ID, Permit to sell, and am legal to ship. I take this very seriously and was told by most I'd never make any profit. That was 9 years ago.
There's many ways to go about this. I am convinced no matter what you work with, there's a way to make it into a business but the thing is way too many people expect it to happen within 2 years, and that is not likely.
Speaking for myself I can tell you I almost never lower prices or wholesale, if anything I am patient and prices go up, not down.
I have a lot to say about this topic, but I can't on the forum and I aint about to give away any of my secrets anyway haha!
Good luck though!
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

"if anything I am patient and prices go up, not down"

To many breeders get nervous come chrismas time because nobdody is buying and then they get unload their snake at whoesale prices. That is what is hurting the market value of particular higher end morphs, because people think they have to sell everything within 2 months of hatching.

What some breeders don't realize is if a snake gets bigger it becomes more desirable. Also selling snakes in the slow months(Jan -April)is easy.
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www.Bluerosy.com

You two hit the nail on the head....
I mentioned the same thing up above.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

what I don't get is how *anyone* makes a profit selling 20 dollar snakes. By the time you factor in housing, feeders (even if you breed 'em yourself they need to eat) and substrate, water bowls, heating, etc...

I'm trying to get into it as a living, or at least a secondary income, because I love snakes. Working snakes, be it cleaning cages at home or field herping, is one the things I love doing. It feels right. Eventually (say 5-6 years) having it be my sole or at least main income would be really nice, but I'm not holding out tons of hope for it yet. I'm hoping that by the three or four year mark the hobby's paying for itself but I figure I'd need 25k of profit a year to pay myself a living wage.

What I did, and maybe I should have looked around more first and asked more people, was sat down and made a list of animals that I knew I liked. Then I looked at what they cost to maintain and purchase, vs what they sell for. I tried to account for clutch size--i.e bigger clutches=more offspring to sell but prices will drop quicker (probably) and cost are higher (more mouths to feed, more cages to buy, etc). I decided to target the several hundred dollars and up end, simply because I don't see a feasible way to make a profit selling only normal kingsnakes or retics, as much as I love them. So I got morphs, and poss hets. We'll see how it goes.
For what it's worth, I think that the colubrid market isn't in horrible shape. Sure there are lots of inexpensive animals but that's true of boids too. There's also some higher end animals.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Actually you can make a decent profit even on $20 snakes-lets use snow corns as a hypothetical example:

One pair of juvie snow corns - $50-buy them late in the season, that way the breeder has head-started them for you. They will eat about 6o mice per year (allowing for time off for brumation, sheds, gravid inappetance, etc). You will pay at most about $30 in bulk for that number of frozen adult mice. Use newspaper for bedding-cost zero.

You can reasonably expect about 30 offspring minimum per year from your pair, given double-clutching. If you can market those offspring for $20 ea, then you have $600.

This is very simplistic, but even given a few bucks in electricity costs -plus that pair's share of a rack system, and frozen pinks for the babies- I think you can see how it is not difficult to come out ahead.

Making a living is another matter-it is HARD WORK.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Actually you can make a decent profit even on $20 snakes-lets use snow corns as a hypothetical example:

Making a living is another matter-it is HARD WORK.

I think your posts explains things real well. Especially the "hard work" part!
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>Actually you can make a decent profit even on $20 snakes-lets use snow corns as a hypothetical example:
>>
>>One pair of juvie snow corns - $50-buy them late in the season, that way the breeder has head-started them for you. They will eat about 6o mice per year (allowing for time off for brumation, sheds, gravid inappetance, etc). You will pay at most about $30 in bulk for that number of frozen adult mice. Use newspaper for bedding-cost zero.
>>
>>You can reasonably expect about 30 offspring minimum per year from your pair, given double-clutching. If you can market those offspring for $20 ea, then you have $600.
>>
>>This is very simplistic, but even given a few bucks in electricity costs -plus that pair's share of a rack system, and frozen pinks for the babies- I think you can see how it is not difficult to come out ahead.
>>
>>Making a living is another matter-it is HARD WORK.
>>
>>
>>I think your posts explains things real well. Especially the "hard work" part!

Yep...because in order to make a living with low ends you will need to produce 5000 offspring at 20 bucks each.....That's a lot of hard work.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

That's pretty much exactly what I was going to write.

There's a difference between making a profit and making a living, but breeding just about any snake can be profitable - assuming it produces a decent clutch of babies.

Tim

>>There's a difference between making a profit and making a living

That's true, I misspoke with that line. I should have said "make a living." And I guess you could if you want to produce 5-6,000 snakes per year but being that large scale doesn't appeal much to me.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I loose money keeping snakes. I look at it as if I put all the time I put into captives, at another job...well then I would have a lot more money. Now, if I put half of the time I pu into the field at another job...well I would make A LOT more money. It may be marketing, who knows. But if you keep snakes for the love and the types you keep, even if you don't make money and end up putting more money into it...well you don't loose in my eyes. I'm sure, if you were to focues on a few species in high demand you could make more than you put in, or maybe even pay for itslef.
jeff