Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are my "Ivory Tortoises" really albino tortoises? Are they different from the "Fakes"?

Yes they are albinos and they are very different from the "Fakes". Not to diminish the quality of the nice light spurred tortoise "fakes" but my "Ivory Tortoises" are completely different. I produce hundreds of tortoises that are very similar to the "fakes" (until they start growing and develop new growth that is dark). The "Ivory Tortoises" don't produce the dark growth rings. E-mail me for a picture at richardfife@theriver.com.

Several terms are common place among reptile enthusiasts but have not all made it to the dictionary yet. They are albino, amelanistic, leucistic, and hypomelanistic. All of these terms actually refer to albinistic animals and are all, forms of albinism.

The term albino most often refers to the type of albinism called amelanistic (lacking melanin) or tyrosinase-negative albinism. This means the animal is lacking the tyrosinase enzyme that is involved with the production of melanin. The tortoise will have little or no pigment in the eyes, skin and shell. The shell and skin color is yellow or white and the tortoise has pink eyes.

Leucistic refers to the type of albinism in which the skin and shell are pure white (not yellow or pink), and the iris is blue. Leucistic means white, colorless, or weakly colored. This is Tyrosinase-positive albinism.

Hypomelanistic also refers to the type of albinism that is Tyrosinase-positive. The tyrosinase enzyme is present but not functioning properly. The skin and shell are yellow not white (distinguishing it from a leucistic animal) and the iris is blue, gray, yellow, or brown. Hypomelanistic means less than normal melanin (dark pigment).

It is quite hard to actually determine the color of the iris in my hatchling "Ivory Tortoises". The iris Starts out dark red and shortly turns to a blue or blue/gray. The pupil is black. The shell and skin color is yellow or ivory.

The blue or blue/gray iris is actually a blessing to this desert species. Exposure of pink eyes to the bright sun would certainly be damaging. It is the melanin in the eye that protects the eyes from damage from the sun.

Please e-mail me for a picture of a normal, "Fake", and the "Ivory Tortoise". If anyone can e-mail me with information on how to post a picture to this form I will be happy to post the picture.

Richard Fife

Your real Ivory's are very nice, don't get me wrong, but I have two "fake" ivories and there really amazing, mine are extremely light and I payed $165 shipped for the pair to my door and am very happy with them and for $2500 for a real ivory is truly a lot, Maybe mine will grow out of the "white" faze there in, but I guess we will see as they grow

to post a pic, just upload pics on the photo gallery and the drop down window will come up when you go to post the next time

Andy

RedoFootMan@yahoo.com

Thank you Andy for information on how to post a picture. If I get a chance I will post a picture of an African spurred tortoise I have that has a radiated pattern.

You got any of the blondes/Fake Ivories available IVORY TORTOISE.By the way niice pics on your web site.

Yours are really nice, my "fake" ivories are alot more of a "whiter" color than the one you have, did you purchase yours from turtle land or is it just one you produced?

Andy

Would you ever consider cutting back on the number of sulcata produced? Are you currently breeding Russians or Greeks?

Katrina

This response is not intended to challage your question or be argumentative but I hope gives other readers my prospective on breeding African spurred tortoises.

A very interesting question! As I am sure you are aware wild populations of African spurred tortoises are one of the most critically endangered tortoise species in the world (at least according to French studies). There are perhaps only two or three tortoise species that are more endangered in the wild.

In contrast to the wild populations, the captive African Spurred tortoise is one of the most successful species in the world. Because it does so well in captivity it has become one of the most common and favorite “pet” tortoises. Its biggest drawback is the eventual size. Even as a large tortoise it is still the best choice for the southern third of the United States and for much of the world.

Even in cold areas people have gone to great expense providing ideal conditions for their tortoises. Again they are thriving in captivity even in cold places!

I question why we would restrict captive breeding or distribution of an animal because “it likes captivity and does very well in captivity”?

I regret that some turn up as unwanted pets but I wonder if the percentage is any higher than for cats, dogs, smaller turtles and tortoises, birds, fish, horses, pigmy goats, and the list goes on. We could even put abandoned children, wives, and husbands in this list of “unwanted”. I don’t think there is any legislation that can solve the problem with unwanted pets. Education has always been the best course in my opinion.

I receive calls all the time from people looking for large sulcatas. I always refer them to “Turtle and Tortoise Rescue Organizations”. I always ask them to call me back if they are successful in rescuing a large sulcata. So far no one has called back in the past 8-years! I am not sure why!

I breed a number of the smaller species of tortoises but because of their slow reproductive rate it is impossible for them to compete economically with wild caught tortoises. I have a large group of Russian tortoises that I am raising up to eventually breed. The only way it will be profitable to commercially breed Russian Tortoises is if the Russian tortoise is protected (which I hope happens).

The income from my African spurred tortoises pay for all the work I am doing with a number of endangered Asian species and others that need help. I also made a substantial investment in tortoise research this year, which was made possible because of breeding African spurred tortoises.

In short I believe the positive side of providing African spurred tortoises for the pet trade far outweighs the negative side. I will always feel bad for the unwanted pets that are abandoned but for me to not breed African spurred tortoises will not solve the problem. It will just mean that some other specie that is not as well suited for captivity will be taken from the wild to fill the void, and a percentage of them will become abandoned. I think most people take care of their animals and both pet and owner benefit.

As long as supply meets demand why cut back? If you do cut back you will most likely increase demand. Making it more profitable to produce these animals.
The only logical recourse is to allow the economy to run it's course. This is just now beginning to happen with green iguanas. When there is too much supply, demand decreases. In this context these guys are looked at as comodities like cows, chickens, pigs...
(surely to be continued...)
Ed