Reptile & Amphibian Forums

where can i find a more detailed description of the natural habitat of a pueblan milksnake? i want to build his terrarium to look more like where he's from.

thanks
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Oppossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

L. t. campbelli are native to the Zapotitlan Basin of Puebla and Oaxaca, Mexico.

-Cole

oh!! that was perfect!! thank you. searching zapotitlan basin i found this website with pics.
l.t.c. habitat pics

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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

But you might want to skip having wall to wall cactus in your new campbelli enclosure..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

thought it was from a Boaphile Rhino Raxx....?....

.....good luck and show pics.....

you going to make one of those styrofoam rock walls?....

....
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...one of the CraZieS...?...

........JY.......

idk. if i can find directions, i'll try. i'm thinking about adding shale. maybe some larger rocks. it's got to be something cleanable though. maybe one piece or several 'one piece' pieces that lift out. i'm just sketching right now.

i've also got a hypo brooks king that i'm thinking about a limestone banked 'river' for.
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

"i've also got a hypo brooks king that i'm thinking about a limestone banked 'river' for"

Ahh, going for the southern Miami/Dade canal look hey?

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

yes. i was thinking of somehow building a river from the middle back of a 48" tank to the front right corner. having a tree that starts on the back right and hangs over the river (which is actually just a long water bowl). and a limestone rock stack, cavern, or something on the left side of the tank.
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for substrate, has anyone used walnut bedding (like for bird cages)? i was thinking a mixture of that and bed a beast (that expandable shredded coconut stuff) would work good.
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

well that didn't work.

ignore the attempt at showing placement of stuff in the tank.
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

Cool!,....

My friend Rusty Green(RG on this forum) uses crushed walnut shells, so you could ask him about his thoughts on it.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

If I remember correctly, walnut molds if you get it moist. Not a big deal when a water bowl spills, but bad if the entire substrate is moldy. Adding coconut fiber may do just that.

You are best going with straight coconut fiber (Bed-a-Beast, etc) or a cactus/succulent soil from a garden store as long as it doesn't have fertilizers in it. Or straight walnut, but keep the walnut dry.

I would ask about the walnut of those who use it. I've used it for rosies, and they seemed fine on it. But for a Pueblan you may want a substrate that holds more humidity or can be sprayed during dry times. Like coconut fiber.
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Mark

i was browsing in petsmart last night. t-rex has come out with new substrate. one was called canyon trail; the other was beach path. they seemed interesting. here's the 'advertising' on it..

"Beach Path

First organic/inorganic substrate blend
Replicates nature more accurately
Good or Best for most herp species
Retains humidity better than pure sands
Supports burrowing activity
Multiple textures enrich habitat
Less likely to be ingested accidentally
Transmits heat better than pure organic substrate"

it was pretty. almost like real dirt. natural dirt i mean. it was bigger than sand, but smaller than gravel. had pieces of bark, or aspen shavings, in it. and it was really expensive. $14 for a 10-pound bag.

i wonder how often it would need to be changed. would scooping feces be enough, or would it mold. it says it promotes burrowing. will the tunnels stay, or collapse?

there was another substrate by zoo med called excavator. i was excited about it. you wet it, mold a few hides into your tank, put the reptile back in while the substrate is still damp, he digs and makes more tunnels. when it drys, the tunnels stay. /but/ it said don't use with u/t heating because it leaves hot spots. i'm assuming the clay dries to resemble a heat rock? i suppose it's possible to use half and half. clay on the cool side, aspen or other on the heated side.

thinking more about the walnut, i remember using it for bird cages in the pet store i worked. i hated it. right in the front of the cages, where the birds would splash their water, it would mold horribly (science project mold) within a week.

thanks for all the input!
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

Yes, cool substrates, I do like the granite one. It would be of great benefit to you to try and get the ingredients separately.. save $$$ down the road.

I think you can get the course-grade rounded sand from building supply places. Sandblasting sand is like that - a great product. I got some from a fish store - it was not as pricey as the one you saw. More course than sand but smaller than typical gravel. Mix in some whatever you want - aspen, bark, etc.
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Mark

i hadn't thought of that yet. thanks!! i wonder if i can eyeball the packaged substrates and figure out the ingredients.
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

oh come on. how fun would that be. a tiny little milksnake wrapped around a ginormous cactus...
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Cole is right, of course, but there's a lot more information to be found -- from photos to a thorough habitat description -- in the original published description of campbelli:

Quinn, H. R. 1983. Two New Subspecies of Lampropeltis triangulum from México. Trans. Kansas Acad. Sci. 86 (4). pgs. 113-135

Shoot me a message if you have any trouble finding the paper.

***

On a somewhat peripheral note, this was also the article that first described L. t. dixoni. It's intriguing to me that one of the described species went on to become one of the most historically popular milk snake species in captivity, while the other seems to have faded into complete obscurity. I would love to find some of these so if anyone knows of someone working with Dixon's please drop me a line!

Cheers,

Brad
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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

"so if anyone knows of someone working with Dixon's please drop me a line!"

I would just stick with trying to win the lottery, your odds are MUCH greater!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Hahah - I know... Hit me!

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http://www.waffahousereptiles.com

awesome article! thanks for sending it!
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1.0 Pueblan Milksnake (Urulóki)
0.1 Hypo Brooks Kingsnake (Mumuna)
2.2 Random House Cats (Jack, Tonka, Violet, Duchess)
1.3 Mice (Daddy Mouse, Honey Bear, Bad Mama, Unnamed Baby)
0.0.1 Wily Garage Opossum
0.2 Sticky Children
1.0 Patient Husband