Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Now I have seen my share of hypo brooks. When they first came out maybe Flame was a differentiation between the reds and yellow hypos...but werent Flames there as a normal phase?? Arent they still? Just because a flame bred to a flame doesnt mean all the babies are flames right?? As selective breeding gets more refined everyone is "extreme" this and that(to make sales)....and some are and some just arent. There have been some posted here recently that are killer! Others not so much. Yet this is yet another reason I am not fond of the "Flame" and "Sulfer" and a few other "non-recessive genes". There is nothing stopping anyone from putting any name on any snake. There are extreme ends of any normal morph right? Or am I wrong again?? Ball pythons? As always, I may be unpopular, but at this point I'm attempting to be a centrist. I post this to try and avoid the "extreme extreme extreme hypo on fire in your face supre red" morph. Opinions are great, but since when are genes opinions??

They are line bred traits. Selective breeding brings out the reds. the sulfur trait is also a line bred trait.

High reds are also common in other snakes. look at the extreme red hognoses. Those are line bred traits.

but the new extreme red hypo brooks, i am not sure about nor am I familiar with. It may be there is something else going on with that. Or is there? Is it just a line bred trait that was crossed tinto the anery? I have long thought that the anery phenotypes (because they are a muddy dark brownish as normals) cause these spectacular reds to come out when combined into the Peanut butter and hypos. The anerys ghost are very striking as well.

heck i like em all. give me kmore varities of floridana anytime. They are a great snake to work with.

BTW Jeff, will you be in Daytona ?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Rainer, I understand line bred traits but I think some people take liberties and put extra names on snakes that arent appropriate. Its only magnified when a more deserving line comes along...Nobody wants something "normal", so a yellow phase normal is a sulfer? I think color phases exist and can be line bred, but I think we can aknowledge a phase is not a morph. Sorry, too many death threats for me to make it to Dayonta this year,LMAO. I'm sure you will have a beer for me! Thanks!

There are normals, hypos, and even an anery. Flame X Flame does not produce all flames. Two non-flames from the flame line can produce flames. I do believe there is something "extra" going on with the extreme flames but there are so few of them around that no one has figured it out yet. You are also correct that everyone who produces an animal with some red is calling them flames or extreme flames or extreme red flames or something. We gotta come up with a name that sets the real deal apart from the others.

Karl
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Boneyardreptiles.com

I hate the word EXTREME. Please lets NOT use that one!

I didn't come up with it.
Any better ideas?
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Boneyardreptiles.com

"Extreme Flame" was the name Tom Agosta put on the really red babies that were not Hypo yet looked hypo... i think they're HYPER-erythristic but can't label them as such till i prove it... till then gotta go with the name he put on them. I don't think the name's fitting hence the quotation marks.

~ZF

I have hypos i bought as Flames years ago that live up to the name and hold a good bit of their color into adulthood.

Then i have the Agosta (Fengya) line Flames that are in a class of their own.the hatch out RED/ORANGE and stay RED/ORANGE

There are:

Flames (that are just high red normals but they stand out!)

Hypo Flames

Lav Flames

Extreme Flames (HYPER-E ?)

Extreme Hypo Flames (these could be 3x HomoZ)

Anery Flames (really high white Anerys)

Snow Flames (seems like an oxymoron)

Ghost Flames

The Flames from the Agosta (Fengya) line are distinct! people will throw labels on snakes that don't fit the part regardless, the consumer needs to ask the right questions and get 2nd opinions... i've seen ALOT of miss labeled "sulphurs" "flames" and even Hypos labeled "Peanut Butters"

Here's a pic from this morning: Female "normal" Flame Top Left; Female "Extreme Flame" Bottom Right; Male "Extreme Flame" in the Tub.

~Z

There is definitely something going on. It just doesn't work in a predictable way.
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Boneyardreptiles.com

Zenny, its yours that had me thinking this. Side by side its hard to not think of them as HYPO though...maybe a type 2 hypo? I know the red stays, and was hoping to get a adult/baby shot in my post about kings holding red. And I appreciate the "", its appropriate. But if there are all these other types of flames wont they be made moot with a genetic flame? I mean remember people wanting pure yellow brooks until the hypos were produced? Now no one(ok, some FANATICS,lol)really wants those. Bottom line, with a genetic trait exhibiting better effects than line breeding my bet is FLAME gets replaced. No?

Not a type 2 hypo but a REAL hypo.....
All the normal hypo Floridana I see still have black on them......Just reduced pattern not reduced pigment....the black they have is still all black.....IMHO....
These do not.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Oh MAAAAAN! the Florida king morph discussion is getting deep here. Maybe we should all pull out our magifying glasses from our back pockets. I mean, we are nerds, aren't we?

Actually the Peanut Butter morph does not have any black. If you look C L O S E L Y the black areas are actually a lavender color. Not black or brown.. Maybe that is why it has the relation to the T negative albino. Maybe the Peanut Butter is a type of Amelistic albino with some extra pigment. Maybe it was dropped here by aliens from the planet aqua moon. Maybe i should just flush them away before they invade all of herpetocultursist all over the planet BWAAA HA HA HA!

Something to ponder.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Floridana corns......hehe
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

They do actually have black. Just not a lot.
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Boneyardreptiles.com

technically the Peanut Butter would be a type II hypo since it came after the original hypo. But since the name hypo was already taken, Type II hypo didn't sound to hot. .

I actually put pic of the future PB up on the forum for people to vote. I had no name for it at that time . i just explained that the hypo name was already taken and suggestions started rolling in. I liked "Coffee brooks",but oter names after food groupd were suggested like Mocha brooks etc.

So they were voted on and Peanut butter came out the #1 favorite of the participants of this forum at that time..

Now i am glad they picked such a weird name for a snake. It certainly deserves a different name because of it relation to the T ng which produces jellies in the first gen.

BTW i picked the Jelly name on my own. I couldn't take the constant badgering and ridicule of Shannon brown on the peanut butter name. He kept calling them things like Reeses or Goober brooks. So i picked the Jelly name just to pi$$ him off. LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

These are not Hypomelanistic.. They have black speckling and it BLACK not dark or brown.

They seem more HYPER than anything else.

Will these replace the other flames? i can't say... i have hypos here that are RED and have no relation to this line.time will tell... they're all Floridana so a mixing of the lines may throw something completely different in the mix???

~ZF

I would like to get one and breed it to one of my whitesided hypos.

A white snake with a red stripe. is it possible... Maybe? the brooksi morphs have endless possibities and this is just the beginning. I would think anyone getting into them now is a good bit early still.

We are going to see some WONDERFUL abberant colors from the florida spp of getula.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I think the whitesided gene will wash all the color out. Its never been done so no one knows. A white snake with a red stripe would be cool though.

Karl
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Boneyardreptiles.com

Kidding of course, fantastic animal!

Another thing to remember is that these are not genetically predictable. You can breed the 2 most screamin ones together and get babies that are not equal to the parents. You can breed 2 that are barely considered flames and get insane screamers. You can breed them and get average babies one year and the same snakes can produce screamers the next. There is just no way to tell what your going to get.

Karl
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Boneyardreptiles.com

Here's the ONLY baby that made it from "Hybino" to Lavender Flame

He's pretty Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Lavender Flame 100% het Hypomelanistic:

Cloudy (with Flash):

Cloudy (No Flash):

Natural Light (with Flash):

~ZF

That is awesome!!!
Good job!
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Boneyardreptiles.com

np

I love the thick crossbar pattern on this guy. That is a really sweet snake.
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www.Bluerosy.com

WOW.....all I can say is WOW!!!!!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

~ZF