Reptile & Amphibian Forums

@All - Also remember that regardless of what the actual laws are that this IS West Texas. This is law West of the Pecos. That mentality has instilled in the population for decades. Doesnt matter what the fine print says on a law or bill. LE doesnt really care about a few "out uh towners" spending money in their town. From a local point of view they have to contend with drugs, runners, illegals, etc... every day. We (enthusiasts)just add one more item to the list.

More seasoned LE like Border Patrol, who may be from another area usually have a different perception or temperment about the situation.

You can jump up and down or but the bottom line is that local law supports the ranchers. Ranchers dont like us because some enthusiasts are rude or have displayed rude type behavior in and around ranches. This also makes hunting private land a challenge because why would they let you on land when they dont like you in the first place.

I really do hope someone with more ingenuity than myself has an idea of how to solve this. I dont recall ever seeing an issue where you are literally getting "IT" from all sides.

BW,

StevenX

I think it is a small percentage of the Ol-Boys that really have this problem. It would seem that TP&W as a whole is testing things on this new ROW ban to see what the limits will be.... The bad thing is that with all the real "problems" out west with smugglers (human / drug / etc) that the sliding scale of what constitutes a "right or cause to search" is set firmly in the screw us over setting. What we do have on our side is that despite that sliding scale an illegal search is still an illegal search, and until somebody hurts or embarasses TP&W over this practice it will continue to happen no matter how upset you get.

One thing to remember is that LE always has the right to ask if you mind being searched, the real test happens when you say no thank you officer.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

and if you say no thank you they can still search anyway. Game wardens aren't bound by the same laws as police officers from what I'm told.
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Steve W.

and if you say no thank you they can still search anyway. Game wardens aren't bound by the same laws as police officers from what I'm told.
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Steve W.

That would not be correct, they have the same limits and rules for search and seizure as any other LE. They still need a probable cause that would stand up to judicial scrutiny, they do not have a free pass / license to kill / 007 / James Bond / whatever.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

If that's true then Texas law is different than where I live. Wardens can search here without a warrant. Probable cause is deemed to easy to apply here so the cops need solid evidence. The wardens here can pull you over and demand to look into your trunk.
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Steve W.

And what happens if you say no? Do they take your keys and open the trunk? Probably not.

ECTimaeus

They will detain you if they think you keep herps and raid your house in full swat gear. Judges here don't seem to have a problem with issuing warrants at all. Then if you don't have a permit for anything they find or have an illegal animal they will take everything.
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Steve W.

Not that it matters but Border Control isn't considered LE. If you're stopped by Border Patrol and you are a CCL holder you are not required by law to inform them you have a CCL and firearm in your possession. I do it anyway as a courtesy because if I was in their shoes I would want to know.
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Steve W.

That's Border "Patrol" lol.
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Steve W.

Not that it matters but Border Control isn't considered LE. If you're stopped by Border Patrol and you are a CCL holder you are not required by law to inform them you have a CCL and firearm in your possession. I do it anyway as a courtesy because if I was in their shoes I would want to know.
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Steve W.

I agree in a sense that Border Patrol is "odd" in their duty, but they are still LE, just at a federal level. I would treat them as any other LE and let them know about any CHL up front during a stop and just let them get done with you. My experience with BP is that they do not want to waste much time searching cars or asking useless questions once they stop you they pretty much know if they will be keeping you a while. They also do not seem worried about petty things that do not impact what they are tasked to deal with in my experience. So as long you are a citizen or legal guest of the US and are not transporting drugs or illegal people there is not much to worry with.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Border Control? that should of course be Border Patrol... not multitasking well today
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

OK LANCE, no making fun of me. I'm on vacation and in a relaxed mood. lol
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Steve W.

OK LANCE, no making fun of me. I'm on vacation and in a relaxed mood. lol
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Steve W.

I wish I was making fun of you, truth is it has been a long day on a personal note for me.... stayed up way to late and got up nice and early like every other Monday... Lack of sleep makes me quirky.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

I agree. By far the vast majority of encounters I've had with BP have been good. Most stops have been brief, the few that involved longer queries usually took place in areas where herpers are not a regular sight and the BP agents questions seemed based on genuine suspicion rather than an attepmt to persecute a snake hunter.

I was told by the Texas State Police/Highway Patrol that Border Patrol was not LE and are not required to know about CCL's when stopped. You guys may have heard different. Too many gray area's when dealing with legal issues.
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Steve W.

>>I was told by the Texas State Police/Highway Patrol that Border Patrol was not LE and are not required to know about CCL's when stopped. You guys may have heard different. Too many gray area's when dealing with legal issues.
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>>Steve W.

You were misinformed sir
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HCU
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

I guess I trusted that Highway Patrol headquarters knew the law. LOL
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Steve W.