Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok lets see if I have this straight, people are upset due to the change in the laws? You have had your chances and you have screwed the pooch, wake up and grow some testis everyone thought you had to be nice to HARVEY HILDEBRAND, you gotta remember him and TP&W stole your rights, HARVEY is a whore in society, he sold out to what TP&W wanted, making him a WHORE. I'm truly surprised at the total complacency of the snake hunting community and the belief in compromise. If our forefathers were such pansies we would still be drinking the queens tea, or Texas would be in Mexico (oh wait forget the last one Texas is part of Mexico loll) the blacks would still be picking cotton and French would still be here. The fact is you must stand up for your rights, no body will protect you and your rights if you don't. Don't ask your politicians or YOUR bureaucrats for change tell them TO CHANGE. We must go back to demanding our rights.

If some one came up to you and tried to punch you in the face would you let them? Fact is most you would its obvious by that big damn black eye the government and TP &W has given you, well now its time to fight back, stop spending your time trying to compromise and stop spending it snake hunting, spend your next vacation at your local legislatures office with picket signs, bring the media in, let them see how your rights were stolen from you!!!!!!!

I've been to quit for to long, I have sat back and watched all of you cry through your big black eye, by a damn man fight back. All of you pansies that have consented to search STOP, you do not have to, read the supreme courts rulings, if they want to search don't ask them to get a warrant tell them to go get a DAMN warrant. To many of you are way to worried about the last 30-60 minutes of lost hunting than your rights, look where that has led. Now you have lost all your snake hunting, start exercising your rights, keep a tape recorder with you, turn it on at a stop, be polite but firm and tell them no you will not search. I know going into this that if im stopped im willing to go spend the night in jail to protect my rights.

My civil liberties are far more important than one night of freedom. You have the legal right to a search warrant, exercise it. When stopped by LE use your rights under the law, don't tell them what your doing, telling them is admission of guilt and any LE on here will tell you that it can be used against you. There is a great video out from a law professor and he explains it. When stopped by LE give them your name if asked, but for gods sake don't tell them where you are going how long you will be gone or what your doing, I just tell them im a US citizen and that im heading east or west that's all they need to know.

More to come soon

Watch the video on your rights
Dont talk to the police

It may not stay up, but it's good to see we still have some "angry as hell" types still out there.

Robert

Tank I dont know how to say this and have it perceived correctly...

With our government, a person can either support the government or be a terrorist. It doesnt sound very democratic but these days that is the perception.

Now, you can say I am supporting democracy by fighting for our rights and freedoms. But, if you are not playing the game, greasing the wheels, making the connections, then you are not really supporting democracy. The perception will be that of a militant and the nasty "T" word. Terrorist...

It sounds strange that after all these years, we have lost a sense of how we started in this country. But, that is where we are at.

I think the guys who tried hard several years ago to get things changed did the best they could with the time and money they had. It didn't work out and I dont blame any of them at all.

So to sum up, I understand the anger... and again if someone can offer a solution to the issue I am all ears. In the end, democracy will equal monetary. If there is enough monetary then we will have our freedom to hunt or cruise.

BW, StevenX

The fight is by no means over. I think it has barely begun and I have a very posetive outlook for the next legislative session. Money certianly will help, it's probably the main motivator for many politicians. Despite that I think we do have logic on our side in that roadhunting certainly doesn't harm populations, at least in the trans-pecos region where there are so few roads. I am certain that all available science and data now and in the future would verify that.

I think we have actually made great progress in some locations with alot of local businesses already on our side. We also have a few politicians on our side. Unfortunatly TPWD seems to be willing to use any and all underhanded means to quelch the herp communities desire to herp the Trans-Pecos region and IMHO TPWD has yet to address us in good faith.

What we need is to gather more support, especially from small businesses in a greater variety of locations, and for more herpers to become involved in the fight.

I do think we can eventually push TPWD into dealing with us in good faith if we follow the law at the same time as maintaining our protests and our presence in the region.

Steve,

Correct me if I am wrong but, don't you have a permit or exemption that allows you to collect on the ROW because you are a teacher? If that is the case I go not think you really have a dog in this fight. You are fortunate that you do not have to play under the same rules. I realize that anyone could (given enough time and inclination) become a teacher and then get the permit or exemption (whatever it is). Maybe with enough foresight all of us could have done that. Unfortunately not knowing what was going to happen with our rights, some or all of us have chosen other career paths. You are not the only one in your boat. We have others that say they are on our side and want to fight for us but, they also have the same benefit you do. They can collect the ROW. Not to sound bitter but, I can see how you can go along with this law. As it stands, you have had competition drastically cut by this law. So, why fight it?

So, bottom line is that I do not agree with nor appreciate you using the "T" word in this circumstance. If it were not for the people standing up for the rights being taken away, we would be in way worse shape than we are already in - country wise.

It has been shown over and over that there is no scientific evidence that what we do along ROWs drastically affects the populations of critters. If it did, how could you justify your being able to do so. Since there is no evidence, it would appear that a few people (politicians and TPWD) have infringed on the rights of many by passing an absurd law. That is not democracy. Sorta like what is going on with the current presidential administration. If people do not make their rights known, government entities will impose their will. It is not supposed to be the will of the government, it is supposed to be the "will of the people by the people". I think I heard that somewhere.

Do Not Get Me Wrong, I do not advocate total disregard for an established law. I DO think that it behooves everyone to know their rights and if they are being infringed upon, they should stand up for those rights. I do not agree with myself or you being run over or run out of an area because Law Enforcement cannot/will not enforce laws meant to ensure the sovereignty of our border or keeping drug runners out of our country. They could better utilize the LE staff to catch real criminals. I do not believe that I should be warned to stay out of an area of the US because foriegn criminals may be in the area. To me it would be better to have a sign warning the criminals that we will protect our lands and if necessary do WHATEVER it takes to do so. Keep them the hell out of our land.

Hopefully this is not coming across as a rant. It is just MHO.

ECTimaeus

"I do not believe that I should be warned to stay out of an area of the US because foriegn criminals may be in the area."

I agree. Tourism is a significant part of west TX economy. You do not hear about hikers, mountain bikers, rafters, hunters/fishermen or even other types of wildlife photographers being told to stay out of the area. West TX is still US soil and the roads are public. Heck there are even picnic areas for the public along many of the roads we herp. We have just as much right to be there as any of those other groups.

One thing I have started doing during my trips is making it a point to go into a couple local gift shops, book stores, etc. and making a small purchase(t-shirt, coffe mug, post cards, etc.). I will ask them about the weather or something and try to work in that I'm on vacation looking for herps to photograph. I don't go into anything about the laws or anything like that but as I am spending money I somehow make sure they know I am a herper.

The ones with the permits that allow roadside collecting actually DO NOT have less competition...

Permitted individuals have to notify LE WHERE they will be and WHEN they will be there. Too bad if it is raining, or cold, or etc. For example, if a permitted individual says they will be in the Christmas mountains on day x, but drive 6 hours to get there, only to find it is raining, then they are screwed. If they go somewhere else and are caught, then they could lose the permit, as well as give a black eye to the institution they are employed with. They cannot go on to the River Road legally... however, a person without a permit can go wherever they want, they just have to watch what they are doing...

Also, those with permits have to be extemely careful with the animals collected. A permit-holder is prohibited from selling or even giving away animals collected under said permit. That includes breeding and offspring...

Stupid law...

Happy herpin'...

MP

I agree you must know your rights and demand that they are followed, the lack to do soo merly causes more infringement of them

I am not a teacher. I am a Citrix Engineer in the DFW area.
I also do not have a magic permit, but I have inquired on how to attain one. From what I understand permit holders face more scrutiny that non-holders. So I dont think the permits are going to make much difference.

This year I purchased a hunting license and tried to enjoy West Texas as much as possible.

StevenX

Steve,

I am so sorry about my thinking you were a teacher with a permit. Please accept my apology. Evidently I was misinformed.

ECTimaeus

I just can not see Steve putting up with that many kids all at once, he seems good 2-3 at a time, but you start hitting 20 and I see a boil over...
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

followed by a "melt down"......try 30 18 year olds mixed gender 5 times a day......but that ain't why i retired...

Teaching is highly respected in my opinion... I just dont have the patience for that many kids.

Best Wishes,

StevenX

What I mean to say is that I respect teachers/professors. (multi-tasking is tough some days).

BW,

StevenX

But Steve, think of all the holidays and the whole summer off from work. You may want to think about it. lol
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Steve W.

No your wrong, they did not do the best they can, THEY PLAYED THE GAME. Democracy is an evil route that has undermined many civilizations, our forefathers say this say they created a republic. Democracy is no more than MOB RULE, this is what we have allowed to happen because people have become complacent in their lives and beliefs. For years now I have told you all this was coming and for years people wrote it off as rhetoric. Well its here now what are YOU going to do about. (you as all of the folks effected). Like I have said numerous times this law does not directly effect me, I haven't collected snakes in years, my last 3 alterna I have found have all been photo'ed and left to crawl away. Now with that said I see this as an attack on my civil liberties, my ability as a free man to stay free.
We now have NAZI STORM TROOPERS demanding on what your doing, who's car your in, where are you going, why are you going, im GOING TO SEARCH YOUR CAR, Bureaucrats justifying their wages.

Is this the life you were born in too, or is it the life you have allowed to be given you, just remember you are not truly free with out Liberty, Liberty that many people have died for to protect but you want to give it away.

The dumb attitude of well this bully is going to punch me in the EYE but if I cooperate with him and give him my lunch money he will punch me in the arm instead, is just poponderous. If you aren't afraid of the BULLY he has very little power over you. I can remember more than once the littlest guy in school being picked on by the BULLY till he could take no more and than just whipping the bully's a_ _, its time to whip _ss. Stand up don't be afraid and take your liberties back. No more negotiations no more being nice demand your rights, hell start with just knowing your rights!!!!!!!!!!!