Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been playing with the idea of switching males during the second clutches of some of my snakes in order to get the most out of a given season. I also know that some snakes can and will retain sperm so there is a possiblity that the second clutch could be of questionable genetics. Does anyone have real experience in doing this and how likely is it for the second clutch to be mixed?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>I have been playing with the idea of switching males during the second clutches of some of my snakes in order to get the most out of a given season. I also know that some snakes can and will retain sperm so there is a possiblity that the second clutch could be of questionable genetics. Does anyone have real experience in doing this and how likely is it for the second clutch to be mixed?

Females can retain sperm but that doesn't mean they always do......Some even think the female will retain sperm and accept new sperm for unfertilized follicles...Kinda like a cat can get pregnant from 8 males theoretically........

This year I paired up my yella amel spec with a w/c holbrooki.....They hooked up 4 times....She didn't take....she didn't ovulate or anything. She shed again so I decided to pair her up with my PH WhiteWall Holbrooki......She ovulated and laid 11 perfect eggs......

Now I don't know what the genetics are......They will all look like normal phenotypes but there is no way of knowing their genetic makeup unless I raise them up and breed them together.....If I get WhiteWalls the PH male will be a Definite Het.......I will get Amels......and there is a slight chance I will get WhiteWall Amels that will turn yellow?.....LOL

See how confusing using a back up male is......Unless using normal non-het phenotypes I guess it is fine, but other than that it is genetic mess for a few years at least......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Tanks John! That's what I am afraid of. I'm wondering if anyone has any data first hand with results. I guess I coul;d make the pairing in such a way as to illiminate the doubt. For example if I have a Lavender male and a snow lavender female for the first clutch and then use let's say a Peanut Butter male for the second clutch? In that case there should be little doubt as to what father sired what baby.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

if I have a Lavender male and a snow lavender female for the first clutch and then use let's say a Peanut Butter male for the second clutch? In that case there should be little doubt as to what father sired what baby.

That is correct.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

So know one has any data or just general info on any second clutches and how many were fathered from first male? If I do this next year, and I probably will, I will be sure to document the results. I find the subject very interesting.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

So know one has any data or just general info on any second clutches and how many were fathered from first male? If I do this next year, and I probably will, I will be sure to document the results. I find the subject very interesting.

You can do this experiment for the next 20 years and you won't see anything happen. In other words this is not something that happens with any certainty or stastic numbers.

I have just heard it is possible. just like a two headed snake or other happenstances that we try to explain.

Even though there my not be anyone on this forum that it has happened to, i have heard it happen.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

"You can do this experiment for the next 20 years and you won't see anything happen. In other words this is not something that happens with any certainty or stastic numbers."

If the data has not been recorded how can you say that it will not proove anything? I think it will give at least a basic Idea of how probable it is to occur. I plan on using snakes like in my previous examples so the results will be evident. This will also help me to get the most out of each season. I will be able to breed one clutch for snow Lavs and the second clutch for Paebino or at least Peabino hets. That is assuming that I get two good clutches from each female.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I have a clutch that should hatch soon from an experiment like this. I mated my normal het peabino male to my PB female for her first clutch. She slugged out on that one. After that I put my Tneg male in with her and got 6 eggs. 2 slugs and 4 good ones. Now IF I understand correctly and she did mate with the Tneg then I should get all Jellies? If I get norms or PBs then I'll know she retained from the het peabino male.

Please post your results when they hatch. This is what I'm talking about. Though I really want to see two separate good clutches. Yet this will be a good one too! Sounds like what happened to John, but he will have to wait to breed them out to see what he gets since they will all look normal.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

We should be able to use two different males at any clutch as long as the results are obvious. But I like the original thought better.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I'll keep ya updated on it for sure. I wish that first clutch would've been all good so I had solid results from 2 clutches but oh well I will make note though that the het peabino male I used with the first clutch fathered several other good clutches this year also, so no idea as to why her clutch didn't make it. They are due to hatch on the 31st, so won't be to much longer

I have a clutch that should hatch soon from an experiment like this. I mated my normal het peabino male to my PB female for her first clutch. She slugged out on that one. After that I put my Tneg male in with her and got 6 eggs. 2 slugs and 4 good ones. Now IF I understand correctly and she did mate with the Tneg then I should get all Jellies? If I get norms or PBs then I'll know she retained from the het peabino male.

yep. If you bred the T neg visual to a PB visual you will get all Jellies.
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

Sweet deal, I thought as much but wasn't completely sure. I can't wait to see what pops outta them!

First one out!

I am glad I subscribed to this thred cause it's so far down I never would have seen it. We may need to start a new thread. So this one is from the T- neg I am assuming? Looks like a Jelly? Hard to tell. You know that is one thing I am dreading is accurately identifying these morphs when I get multi-morph clutches. Some of them look a lot alike.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah this is from my Tneg male to a PB female. I'm not quite sure what it is, it looks kinda like a Lavender but lighter pink.