Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First off I know there has been some discussion on whether the Hypo Pueblan is pure, but heres my issue. I have a Het hypo female(Don Shores) and a Hypo female (2nd hand Mark Bell) and a Hypo male I picked up from a show. I bred the hypo male to both females The het hypo laid 8 eggs and I got 50% hypo and 50% Hets. The hypo female laid 8 eggs and all the babies are normal looking.

Has anyone had this happen? Is there a possibility that there is 2 different lines of hypo genes that are not compatible? Or, does one have an influence from another species and the genes are not compatible? Any and all opinions and comments welcome.

Now for my other issue I only have the 2 females left as I sold the male. Maybe I can get him back??? I will try and post pics later.
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Jimmy Tintle

Jimmy, it can only be one of two things. The first is you are dealing with two differing types of hypomelanism that are not compatible with each other. This is not uncommon in corns that I know of, with several forms of hypomelanistic genes being out there, and not compatible. Same with amelanism in the certain species. Check with Don. I am sure he would know if there are two non compatible forms of hypo going on with the puebs. The second is that the hypo female that didnt produce hypo babies may not be hypo, but rather just a clean normal someone passed off as hypo. Not saying this is the case, but I have seen corn breeders back in the day ignorantly labeling the lighter babies in their clutches as hypos when in fact they were not.

Do you have a pic of the hypo female that produced normal babies? And do you have a photo of the babies?

I doubt very much the hypo Pueblan was crossed with another species to create it. If anything it would have been crossed with a hypo Honduran.

But to me the hypo Pueblans I've seen looked "pure."

Tim

Third Eye

I know this snake, and a few others appeared in the collection of a guy who was either the luckiest guy on earth...or not. I have had this discussion [argument] on this board a few times.

Regardless... I think it's most likely a case of one thought to be a Hypo being a normal or a het.

Or as suggested there's 2 different lines that are not compatible. It took me over 6 years or snooping around but that was the case with the little know Axanthic Southern Pines.

I am very interested to see if others respond telling similar stories, but for the Pueblans this is the first time I have heard anything,

Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

I will try and post some good pics all I have is a camera phone right now, so I will try and borrow one in the next few days. I can tell you that the hypo is a true hypo and not just clean.
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Jimmy Tintle

I really doubt there are two lines of hypo. there was too much attention on these when they came out that people missed it somehow.

Shannon Brown knows what i am talking about and maybe he can post here after he sees this.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Hi Jimmy,
First off, you do not have the numbers to "know" anything. You would need a number of clutches just to tell if your just unlucky.

Which leads to this, those are morphs, which means they are NOT phenotypic. They are developed from a recessive condition. notice I did not say recessive gene. In nature oddball patterns are selected against, which makes them recessive. Even if genetically they are co-dominate.

Next the terms we use are only for us to classify something, the names do not determine "all" actual possibilities.

Also, as indicated above, genetics is about numbers, so indeed numbers are needed, not small numbers. If you did the same pairing a number of times, the results are what you go by, not "our" thoughts of what suppose to happen.

About crosses, all these captives are all about crosses, a cross in a pairing with any animal that it would or could not pair up with naturally.

Which means, all naturally occuring populations of the same species(our name for them) have a distinct set of genotypic and phenotypic expressions. So anytime you cross a snake out of its natural population, you will surface more recessive traits. Which is how morphs are created in captivity.

One more tiny thought, pattern and color are effected by conditions as well as genetics. To bad you got rid of the male, you had a nice test in front of you.

The reality is, the actual animal is real, what we call them is only names we MAKE UP, to comunicate what we THINK to others. Those names are meaningless to the animals. This is a hard concept to get a handle on. Simply put the animals are the subject and always tell the truth, what we call them or label them is just the best we know at the time and is subject to change as we learn more. Which means, we really do not know all the possibilities.

Which leads us back to the top, your results is where the answer is, not the names we make up or what we WANT to call them.

Besides, terms like Don Shores or Mark Bell, are meaningless, As they acquired those animals from others. The genetics were in place before them. Cheers

Thanks for the input FR very well put.
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Jimmy Tintle