Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Last year I came very close to purchasing two male deserts.
I elected not to because of the concerns with the females not being able to reach a safe enough size so they could reproduce without complications. I knew Stan Chiras wasn't able to and lost his female. I also Knew that Pro Exotics hadn't had any luck either.
Has anyone produced a clutch without problems this year from
a female desert or from a female desert cross?

Regards,

Daniel

I'd be curious to hear about his also. Was also looking to get into this project.

I'm unaware of this and was thinking about getting some! What gives????????

What I heard is that Stan tried breeding his female very young and at 1,200 gr, the general concensus seems to be waiting an extra year or two before breeding a Desert female.

Robin, please feel free to fill in the blanks here....!!!!

Daniel,
A few thoughts I want to pass along.....
I'm not sure of Stan's history of breeding Desert females so I can't answer anything about his experiences.
We tried two years ago with a 1200 gram-ish female and she was unable to pass the eggs. We aspirated the eggs and she passed the empty eggs a few weeks later. Last year we had a female lay slugs for us. She didn't appear to have a problem getting the slugs out. This year I just had one female Desert ovulate and I'm expecting one or two to go soon. All three of those girls had been bred by a Desert line male of some type. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Super Deserts!
I've heard from a trusted source that someone who bought a female from Stan a few years ago got good eggs this year. He didn't breed it to a male Desert but some other multi-gene male. I'm thinking those eggs should be hatching soon. If they do, those will be the first babies from a Desert female that I know of.
Why the "issues" with Desert females? I really don't think there are issues with Desert females. I think that both Stan (I'm guessing here) and I got excited and tried to breed our girls too soon. 1500 grams is the smallest I would try to breed a Desert female now. The Desert line of snakes are a little smaller than most balls. I can get most Desert males to breed at around 500 grams. All my other morph males need to be 700-750 grams before they do any work for me. The first year I tried breeding a Desert female I thought if the males are mature at 500 grams, then a female should be good to go at 1200. Wrong! A 1200 gram Desert female is in my opinion is smaller than a 1200 gram female of another morph. I haven't got a tape measure out but my eye tells me they are smaller. I played football for most of my life. Not all 245 lbs linebackers are the same size. Not a 315 lbs linemen are the same size. And not all 1200 gram females are the same size.

Thanks for the input Chad. Keep those Desert crosses comin.I can't get enough

Chad as you know Stan Chiras and I are good friends.
Last October in Tinley Park You and I had a discussion about female deserts and at that time you were aware of the situation surrounding Stan's breeding efforts, We talked about Stan loosing his female. One of the concerns we talked about was if female deserts stayed on the small side... they would tend
to have a higher percentage of becoming egg bound.

The way I see it.. as of today (7/23/2010) no one to the best of my knowledge has produced any offspring from a female desert or female desert cross.
I believe until breeders have better results (and not just one example here or there) the best we can hope for is: Female deserts (and female crosses) will just need more time to reach reproductive size / maturity.. But! until then.. Yes, there are
issues and in no way would I look at a female desert or female desert cross as a good breeding investment.
Over the last month I have talked with breeders who have been advertising desert stock for sale. I was not surprised to see that none of them had a female that produced a clutch, I was surprised the vast majority had no knowledge of desert females becoming egg bound, staying a smaller size, or needing more
time to reach a reproductive size.
Chad you have known me for a long time, It has been over twenty years since Brian Ree sp. brought you over to see my collection. I remember how impressed you were with my collection of Boas and Pythons and the offspring I was producing at that time.
Chad now that I am working with a few different Ball python morphs please in future correspondence give me the benefit of the doubt! I see no need for your carom shot in using a 245# lineman as an example, After all I see a big difference in a warm blooded 245 # lineman and a 1200 gram cold blooded snake. Maybe using an example of one snake being breed to another
smaller subspecies that produced a viable clutch would have been more appropriate.

Regards,

Daniel

Stan and I are also good friends. I talked with him about this issue yesterday at my show.He said he bred a female too early and that was the only problem he had with a female desert.Time will tell on this one and Stan did not think there would be any problems.Terry

I've heard that somewhat like pieds...deserts are sometimes finicky feeders. I got a baby male from Pro-Exotics in October and he shut down at about 200 grams and he sporadically eats ex-breeder mice. He's just about 400 grams now empty so I would say he's a picky feeder. I know a couple of friends who have male tigers (enchi x desert) and like mine they are also picky feeders.

But I couldn't be happier with mine and I look at it like a pied...patience!
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Hey guys,

I saw Terry at his show yesterday and he asked me about this issue and here is what I know. I have never bred a female desert, and when Chad took the collection I believed one was gravid. Chad told me she didn't lay the eggs so he aspirated them and I thought he said she died. That's all I know about the issue. I did try to breed her early, pushing a new and exciting project, at appx 1250 gms. I surmised we need to let them get bigger after that. Since I have no balls now (the wife got those too!) Chad and y'all know more about this than do I. Nevertheless, I'm sure letting the girls gain another 200-300 gms would be all it takes. Can't wait to see the super!!!! Terry, why did you use that picture? I know I was smiling in the second one!!!! Who's got the biggest female desert out there now?

Stan