Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is from... "Lizards of the World," by Chris Mattison.

In the book Chris states...

"In two or more deserts a specific niche will be filled by similar unrelated species and they will often have many characteristics in common."

Take for instance:

The Horned Lizard (phrynosoma)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_lizard

From... the American Southwest

And the Thorny Devil (Moloch horridus)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorny_devil

From... Australia

Both creatures evolved independently on opposite sides of the world. They look nearly identical relatively speaking and have carved out a specified niche preying exclusively in the wild on a diet of ants in the desert.

I'm trying to come up with other creatures that follow a similar pattern.

Convergent evolution is quite an amazing subject. It's incredible that organisms that have been separated for millions of years adapt to be almost identical.
Another example of how similar they can be is comparing Eutherians (placental mammals) with the Metatherians (marsupials).
Even though the Marsupials are for the most part separated from the rest of the world down in Australia, they have many species nearly identical to those of Placentals.
Things like this are what keep me interested in Biology in school.

Cool thread Ryu

Just to add another example, even though their niches are not quite the same, the body style of sharks, porpoise, and the extinct ichthyosaur are quite similar.

Very interesting stuff.

It is also interesting to ponder the evolution on another hospitable planet similar to earth in a remote part of the universe.

Scientists have many speculations about life in these earthlike celestial bodies.

Take for instance the recent findings they have made of creatures that exist near hydrothermal vents extremely deep in the aphotic zone of the ocean floor.

In this zone 1% or less light actually hits this region.

They believed no life on earth could exist without sunlight and oxygen but the teaming life around these hydrothermal vents proves otherwise.

Hence...

A fundamental law of the natural world:

Where life can exist... it will exist.

http://www.onr.navy.mil/focus/ocean/habitats/vents2.htm

On the remote planets not "in".

Unless they are water worlds

The creatures near the vents convert toxic gases into a usable respiratory cleansing agent as we do with oxygen.

The possibility of life developing and evolving on distant planets is almost guaranteed considering the number of planets in the universe. For earth to be the only inhabited planet would be unimaginable odds.

But also remember that the planet doesn't have to be a replica of Earth. When life developed on Earth, it was a much more hostile environment, with an atmosphere most organisms today could not survive. And vice versa, the earliest organism may not be able to survive today. So even though a planet is inhospitable to Earth's organisms, that doesn't mean it's inhospitable to life.

As for the evolution of organisms on distant planets, why wouldn't convergent evolution still play a role?
I'm not at all an expert on any of this, but I'd say E.T. organisms would most likely be somewhat comparable to those on Earth.

This thread isn't much on bearded dragons, but is interesting and I could go on and on. lol

There are billions of planets like ours with eliptical orbits (MVEarthMSJSANP) spiraling around their suns.

Eisnstein was looking for the patterns within nature.
He believed he saw gods hand at work. Patterns repeat themselves similar to a Symphony by Beethoven. All throughout the universe he saw teams of patterns.

Inside of all atoms are winding strings that vibrate similar to our own DNA coils. All smaller things are within something more significant and complex. Why would it stop and/or begin in only one instant, "big bang." Stop and/or be only one. Some theorize that we are inside part of a living entity. That god is this entity and were inside of his organic manifestation.

According to the super string theory... there are over 26 possible dimensions.

The universe "our universe" is one of many universes. The big bangs echo fills my tv screen with static white noise. That echo will reverberate many times.

the issue is simply that...

the infinite is impossible for the human mind to fathom

Beetoven's Death Mask

we will find a better place,
in this twilight

"the infinite is impossible for the human mind to fathom"

Couldn't be more true.
Given any, or at least the majority of, scientific theories, whether it be string, brane, etc. There is no way of knowing what else is REALLY out there.

We can guess and make assumptions about our own universe, because of repeating patterns like Einstein proposed.

You can look at it like this: at some point, early organisms of distant planets must obtain energy in some way from the environment. Different ways exist, but there aren't THAT many. Most are very inefficient(such as bearded dragons [got some dragons in here lol] basking, which aids, but is not the primary source of energy.)

Photosynthesis in plants, and chemosynthesis in your hydrothermal vent organisms are what heterotrophic organisms use.
There could possibly be more, but considering the abundance of light given off by stars, and chemical substances that can be formed, these are highly likely to be sources of energy.

To harness these energy sources, evolution would push towards the best way possible just as it did on earth.
This is where convergent evolution comes in again.

HOWEVER, throw in theory of other universes and you debunk every law and theory of science. Because in other universes, things may not be at all the same. "Hydrogen" could be a metal, which means water could not exist as we know it. And that is assuming that atoms even exist. We can't even explain many things in our own universe such as the black hole information paradox and dark matter.

The truth is, as stated, we can not even begin to comprehend just how much there is to infinity.

Again, all my information is speculative, and what I believe from what I have learned. I have to thank you for such an interesting, thought provoking thread. Being that I'm only 17, not many people I know really care to delve into subjects like this. lol

17yrs old...

nice! Have you read any Isaac Asmov, Steven Hawkins, or my personal favorite... Carl Sagan?

Read Cosmos by Carl Sagan or an interesting movie with Jodi Foster based on some work by Carl Sagan is the movie contact.

Check it out if you have not seen it already.

Life on earth was stimulated or jump started when meteors came crashing into the primordial ooze of earth and electrical storms shocked this ooze also.

The first organic matter began as fungus grew on rock matter sticking up out of the premordial ocean.

Eventually creatures learned to self replicate and a huge advancement was made evolutionarily speaking.

Have you heard about recent things they are doing?

For example:

Isolating the gene from a bioluminescent jelly fish responsible for its color transparency and self illumination ability. Taking this gene and inserting it/splicing it into the dna geneology of say... your typical house cat.

Now fluffy could potentially glow in the dark.

They have been doing research mixing genes with lab rats etc in testing facilities for years. (Cloned sheep.) Many things are being done that we dont ever hear about. This information is only known/shared in confidential scientific circles.

The bad part would be when "Fluffy" your house cat then brushes up against your leg and gives you a lethal jelly fish sting.

Eventually computer technology will be integrated with the human mind. They will send nano bots inside the human mind to take pictures of your gray matter. Human pyramidal neuron brain cells.

They will scan all of your personality traits, mind map, and idiosyncracies into a computer where a virtual computer online thinking version of yourself will be made. This computer version of yourself would live on and be able to meet your great great grand kids in the future.

A great many things are possible.

Best wishes.

I am still amazed by how seemingly intelligent the bearded dragons are with their very small and instinctual thinking apparatus. Their brain is about 1/100 the weight of our own human mammalian brain, roughly the size of a pea. Yet, capable of advanced instinctual rationalizing functions.

amazing

I haven't done too much reading on any subject really. I've just picked up a fair bit on a lot of different subjects. From conversing with teachers, or seeing something interesting on Discovery channel, then looking into it more.

I have heard of the cloning and use of jellyfish genes, they were placed first in small danio-like fish i believe? Genetics in general had been a great subject for me. I got the cornsnake morph guide by Charles Pritzel, despite only having one amel corn. I still loved the book for it's genetic information. Genetics is what helped me pass the AP Bio test this year. lol

Still kinda running around not knowing what branch of science I really want to study. Quantum physics, Astrophysics, Environmental, Molecular biology, Biochemistry, all science is very interesting to me.

I kinda lean toward the latter two because I'd like to learn of biological toxins like snake venom and jellyfish nematocysts.
I'd like to see what can be done with these toxins medically after a bit of tweaking.
Comes from keeping reptiles for years, of course I end up interested in snakes. lol

But all in all, I'm guaranteed to study some sort of science. I can't understand why a lot of other kids don't have much interest in the field.

I commend you for your love of the sciences.

Stick to it... nothing better than working at a profession that you love.

marine biology would be interesting
do any diving?

Where do you live?

You should get some internships going at some local universities or labs or maybe hospital lab etc. Once you get some hands on experience with internships you will be able to narrow your focus.

Best of luck.

geneology and the study of genetics is awesome

molecular biology is awesome too

Do you own a microscope?

If not, you need to get a nice one for your own purposes or start finding a place where they are in use.
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Aldabra and Galapagos are very similar.
With an evolutionary split 150-200My ago.
They both evolved similarities due to the isolated islands both can be found on.
Unless you are an expert it is difficult to tell between these 2 species.