Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Let's try this again, see if I can post a few photos. Should be photos of the new tiger morph, her belly, and a shot with her siblings.

Looks almost like a light caramel albino. (Which is recessive)
I'd breed the "hets" next season and see what happens.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

"Tiger" has been used for a few different visual descriptions over the years, and currently refers to the Desert x Enchi cross first hatched a few years ago. I didn't name it, but it is well established.

You might want to pick something distinct, otherwise you will have LOTS of confusion : )

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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

I started calling these banded balls a tigers when I first began this project back in the ninety's and have refered to them as tigers all this time. I should have checked to see if it was in use before using it on the forum. Out of respect for the creator of that desert x enchi cross, a truly magnificant ball python, I will have to rename my new morph. Perhaps I will call it a Pecan Ball, then when I cross it with my Butter I can name the offspring Butter Pecans, a good old southern name.

See if it's a caramel albino first. haha.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

How can it be a caramel albino if those genes are not in it's genetic makeup? The original "tigers" were hand picked at Strictly's from imports back in the early ninety's, the way we got new morphs in the day. I tried various matings without much success until I started line breeding 3 years ago to bring out recessive traits. Based on the genetics it can't be a ghost either. That's why I posted the photo on the forum, thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

actually if you just started line breeding these animals 3 years ago it could quite possibly be any of the recessive morphs out there. One could easily miss on a recessive morph for 3 years or just not line the right animals up to get the results you got this year. What it looks like to me is a hypo banded animal but the picture quality isn't the best either.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

it was a joke...caramel butter pecan ice cream. Which is disgusting but some of my family enjoys it.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

I agree with Josh. What you said sounds like a classic example of discovering a recessive trait such as Caramel or Ghost (or other hypo melanistic gene). You could have had either gene in the animal already, or introduced with your cross breedings way back when. This doesn't mean you don't have something good. A new carefully cultivated line of either Caramel or Ghost could be great.
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I remember "Tigers" from back in the day, indeed. The banded types.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

also i know robyn or chad chimed in and got on you about calling youre animals tigers but actually tiger was the name givin to banded type balls many years before a desert even exsited! let alone a desert x enchi so actually they should have been more carefull and selective in there naming of there new combo morph! we see this all to much in ball python mutations does it cause confusement sure! but i think most breeders that tend to fork out that kind of cash on any project will know exactly what it is there buying regardless of what its being called! i think the whole naming process really has gotten out of hand! regards

thanks, boacraze, I agree with what you're saying. And the whole purpose of giving a morph a name is that it is a simple way of referencing that morph in a discussion. I'll bet a lot more herpers think of a banded ball python when they hear the name "tiger" than think of that desert x enchi cross.

Nice try at stirring up crap, but actually, we didn't have ANY hand in naming the Desert or Tigers. None. I was just pointing it out.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

the pics are a bit blurry but as the previous reply stated it does kinda look caramel! but i actually was thinking hypo/ghost

George, is that you? I have a couple of what I call "Tigers" from a batch of ch imports too. I have been trying to get something out of them for the last several years...and still nothing.

Your Tiger there does look like its got some hypo to me as well. Have to say that I had a wild caught (Florida snake call!) female that eventually turned out to be 100% het hypo and produced visuals. So you may have some hypo genes there.
Good luck with the project!

Susan
SSNAKES

I knew you'd figure out how to post pictures.

I agree with some of the others, that the recessive trait popped up because you started line breeding. Hopefully you didn't use multiple males for this breeding.

You hatch a lot of ghosts, does it look like a ghost to you? The caramels all vary a lot and I'm not very familiar with them, so I can't judge that.

Is it a male? What about the siblings m/f?

Good luck with them, whatever they are.

Mike

but having had to develop a naming philosophy given my making some new combos and proven base morphs -- I have an opinion. lol

I don't have any Desert stuff and have seen "tiger" on more than a few base morph animals. I am unclear how many of these PROVED to be genetic?? I see some banded stuff with Tiger attached, but most of them seem subtle in pattern. I would be curious just how many "Tigers" genes are out there? "Naming deal" is getting tricky and I am not sure it is going to get any easier!

I have a few genes I have been working with the last few years. If they prove, I think I am going in an uncharted/unexplored/ABSURD?? genre -- classic 60's and 70's CARTOON CHARACTERS -- NOT KIDDING!!!! What could be better than a Gigantor and Super Gigantor????? Am I dating myself??
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Bill Buchman

That would be awesome. The Kikaida ball...
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn, I have long thought the animated version of Kikaider looks a lot like Edward Cullen and Adam Lambert?? I think both "BORROWED" their look from Kikaider -- just a theory. I KNOW Kikaider was proven codom way back in 1973 -- the genetics behind the later 2 remain murky at best????
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Bill Buchman

Does it look like a Hypo or does it look like this?

Dave

Hi Dave, I produce a fair amount of hypos and my best ones are orange hypos. This new one looks a lot like an orange hypo but I would say it is not. It looks a lot like your photo but maybe a shade lighter on the orange and tan colors. What are you showing me in that photo? My guy is closer to your photo than a hypo, I think.

what about eric dalys tiger and super tiger balls--he proved the tiger out probably 5 or 6 years ago--it is definately a codom and the super is actually quite attractive---its like reduced and super reduced pattern.

here is a pic of a super tiger from erics line as an adult