Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A few of the hundreds of animals seized from reptile aficionado Terry Cullen have won their freedom, but the vast majority of the snakes, lizards and crocodiles remain stuck in legal limbo and under watch of officials who don't want them.

Authorities seized the animals from what they described as filthy, desperate conditions in May. Cullen, 60, was charged with sexual assault of an Illinois woman who says Cullen was interviewing her for an internship with his repitle conservancy, and with several counts of misdemeanor animal-related offenses.

Authorities were investigating the assault claim when they discovered the reptiles, plus some rats and mice and two dogs, two locations in Milwaukee.

Cullen has pleaded not guilty to the charges, and is also trying to get the animals returned to him or to court-appointed receivers that he claims can better care for them than local animal control officials. He says their conditions have worsened and some have died since they were taken from him.

The state, likewise, has requested permission to permanently relocate the animals, something Cullen contends could kill some of them. In court papers, prosecutors said the Milwaukee Area Domestic Animal Control Commission, MADACC, is doing the best it can, but that caring for exotic species creates a dangerous work environment. They also agree the animals need better care than can only be provided out of state.

Prosecutors said their request is a matter of "utmost urgency" to protect the health of the reptiles and to keep the community safe.

But at a hearing Tuesday, Circuit Judge Jeffrey Conen said that issue really belongs in a separate proceeding in civil court. He ruled that Cullen had missed a deadline to contest the animals' seizure under the state's animal statute, and no longer had any property interest in the "unclaimed" creatures.

But the sides had reached agreeement on some turtles, and Conen ordered that about a dozen turtles currently in the custody of the state Department of Natural Resources, which are native to Wisconsin, can be released into the wild. But an ornate box turtle and a Blanding's turtle must be held as evidence in the pending case against Cullen.

Cullen's attorney, Anthony Cotton, said the few animals being kept at the Racine Zoo are doing fine, but that hundreds being kept at a MADACC storage building under circumstances no better than what Cullen provided, and without his specialized knowledge.

Cotton said Cullen had experts from around the country in court and ready to testify Tuesday about better places to care for the reptiles. He argued that the animals should be treated like any other other property seized during a search warrant in a criminal investigation, and since police have released them as evidence, they should be returned or put under a receiver.
www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/98936324.html

"...and with several counts of misdemeanor animal-related offenses." left out TRUMPED UP between "of" and "misdemeanor".

"But at a hearing Tuesday, Circuit Judge Jeffrey Conen said that issue really belongs in a separate proceeding in civil court. He ruled that Cullen had missed a deadline to contest the animals' seizure under the state's animal statute, and no longer had any property interest in the "unclaimed" creatures."

"Well...isn't that nice..." Church Lady.

"But an ornate box turtle and a Blanding's turtle must be held as evidence in the pending case against Cullen."

While I'm not discounting the value of any living thing, an "Ornate Box Turtle" for Christ's sake!

jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>"But an ornate box turtle and a Blanding's turtle must be held as evidence in the pending case against Cullen."
>>
>>While I'm not discounting the value of any living thing, an "Ornate Box Turtle" for Christ's sake!
>>

In WI, you can't touch either.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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I understand that. If that's the best they can come up with for the damage they've inflicted on the guy, that speaks volumes.

Ornate Box Turtles are easily acquired online for about $50 a piece. Most likely NOT from Wisconsin and quite possibly captive born.

Seems to be a rather minor infraction, even by the letter of the law and probably irrelevant in regard to intent, both in the case of the defendant's intent and the "protective" intent of the law, itself. Bad laws are written all the time.

The state should prove knowing intent to deny WI of one of it's Natural Resources by defendant and also prove the fact that the animal did indeed come from WI. No harm...No foul.

That case is a house of cards and a waste of the Tax Payers' dollars. I think it is more ego and personality driven. Oh what a tangled web we weave.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

As far as Blanding's Turtles go, I used to see hatchlings at shows. As various states have begun protecting them and other turtle species, to a greater degree, don't see them anymore.

Maybe they have Federal Protection now. I do not know.

My point being, when I was seeing them, I was reassured, in my mind at least, that they were doing OK...holding their own in the wild, as it were.

Same thing with Wood Turtles. Not so reassuring to not see any, these days.

I know it is a completely different way of looking at things from the Professionals'/Experts'/Authorities' viewpoint, but I honestly believe my perspective is the best and most efficient way to look at things.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Sounds like what you are saying is "screw the law" and do what you want. That's why blandings', spotteds and wood turtles are in such big trouble (and they are, there's documented scientific evidence to prove that)...poachers and unscrupulous collectors abound. Sure, they sold hatchlings at shows at one time but many illegally. And that's okay? Really? This is why our hobby is going down the toilet. Too many folks have a "screw the government" and money driven/profit margin mentality instead of taking a rational, proactive and profesional approach towards protecting the rights of private individuals and working with the various government agencies. Instead, we project ourselves in a manner that its no wonder why we are fighting a losing fight at the moment - i was at a recent herp show and thought I was going to the Harley National Convention (nothing wrong with harley dudes!)....it's about the image we project and right now, it's horrible. I really don't blame anyone but ourselves for what's going on - the herp community is one of the most apathetic communities of the exotic animal world in terms of being proactive in protecting our rights. As far as the actual court case goes, I'm keeping my mouth shut - the animal issues are unrelated to the other issues and that will be flushed out in the court of law.

>>As far as Blanding's Turtles go, I used to see hatchlings at shows. As various states have begun protecting them and other turtle species, to a greater degree, don't see them anymore.
>>
>>Maybe they have Federal Protection now. I do not know.
>>
>>My point being, when I was seeing them, I was reassured, in my mind at least, that they were doing OK...holding their own in the wild, as it were.
>>
>>Same thing with Wood Turtles. Not so reassuring to not see any, these days.
>>
>>I know it is a completely different way of looking at things from the Professionals'/Experts'/Authorities' viewpoint, but I honestly believe my perspective is the best and most efficient way to look at things.
>>
>>jsc
>>-----
>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

A former WI DNR employee informed me that the agency prosecuted a WI high school biology teacher for having what they determined was a ornate/three-toed hybrid(adult-presumed WC). I saw photos and it definitely looked like that hybrid. The teacher was given the turtle by a student that bought it in a pet store but at some point no longer wanted it, years prior to that incident. The DNR employee said the agency went so far as to do DNA tests to determine the genetics of the turtle prior to making their case. They totally ignored the fact that three toed's dont range anywhere near WI so the ornate parent could also not have been a WI specimen. But the offending specimen was half ornate so the owner was found in violation of possessing half of a state endangered species. It was confiscated by the agency. I wondered what they planned to do with it.
This is life in wisconsin!

More wasted tax dollars.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Its way beyond wasted tax dollars. Due to budget cuts, The state crime labs that process DNA samples are so backlogged with crime scene samples that the delays in suspect ID confirmations by DNA often occur at least 10 years after the trials and convictions of these prime suspects.
Since some of these convictions end up not being the person whose DNA was collected at the scene, they end up being exhonerated and released after serving a decade or more in prison, and, you guessed it- they sue the state for millions of dollars for wrongful conviction and imprisonment.
A recent high-profile case in Milwaukee involved a serial killer who raped and killed around 8 women during a ~10 year period. He was out and about because the wrong person was convicted (and later exonerated) for the murder of the first woman. The true perp was not caught until the last murder and his DNA confirmed that he killed all 8 women. It was during this same time period that this turtle DNA took priority in the crime lab, over actual murder cases. And people still wonder why there is so much contempt for the government and legal system.

Milwaukee County taxpayers may have to pick up a bill of more than $250,000 to pay for the care of the 239 snakes, lizards, crocodiles and other animals seized from reptile-keeper Terry Cullen, according to the Milwaukee Area Domestic Animal Control Commission.

Authorities rescued the animals from two Milwaukee locations in May. The majority of the reptiles were found in filthy conditions with little food or water. MADACC is contracted by 19 county municipalities to provide safekeeping for animals involved in law enforcement cases.

According to Melanie Sobel, MADACC executive director, the estimated cost to date for the animals' care is approximately $247,365 for housing fees, $4,780 for impound fees to cover processing and assessment of the animals, and $2,500 for medical care.

Materials and supplies cost about $2,400, and included horse troughs to house alligators and wood to build lids on anaconda containers "so the snakes wouldn't escape," said Sobel. Some of the animals were found housed in plastic sweater containers, "so tight they couldn't even move so we went out and bought bigger containers so they could move around," Sobel said.

The estimated figure of $257,045 for the reptiles' care does not include "thousands of dollars in additional staff time and overtime," and does not include three days of police time spent bringing the animals to MADACC, Sobel said.

Various zoos and other institutions across the country have now taken dozens of the reptiles into their care. MADACC is still housing 141 animals.

Cullen has been charged with several counts of misdemeanor animal-related offenses and has also been charged with the sexual assault of an Illinois woman. He has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

Sobel said she understood that the Milwaukee County district attorney's office may seek restitution from Cullen for the care costs. If there is no restitution, "taxpayers will pay the bill," says Sobel.

However, Kent Lovern, chief deputy district attorney for Milwaukee County, who is working on the Cullen case, said: "At this point, because the case is pending in court, it is inappropriate for me to speculate about any potential outcomes. We will have to let the case run its course through the legal process."

A call to Cullen's attorney, Stephen Glynn, was not immediately returned.
www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/99552304.html

The amount spend has no bearing on the issue.

More relevant to the complete incompetence and the totally unqualified individuals passing judgement on others.

This is a huge indictment of those behind this miscarriage of justice!

Send PETA and HSUS the bill. They've got plenty of money.

The American Public is being shaked down...made to pay for the AR crowd's moralistic agenda, while at the same time voluntarily forking over millions in donations to a deceptive and fraudulent campaign to get their money.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer