Reptile & Amphibian Forums

one of my six babies has taken a live pink. They are 2 weeks out of the shell, and the other 5 have shown no interest. Should I be concerned, or will they eat when they are ready? They are in deli cups, and I cover the enclosure the cups are in with a blue towel when I put the mice in before dusk last nite. This AM, all the pinks are still breathing free air.

thanks!
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1.0 C/B Brooks
0.1 C/B Lavender Brooks
0.1 C/B Snow Brooks
0.0.1 W/C Scarlet King (RIP)
0.0.1 W/C Eastern Milk
0.1 W/C Yellow Rat
0.0.1 W/C Western Garter
1.0 C/B Black Lab (RIP)
1.0 C/B Min. PoodleXAmer. Eskimo hybrid
1.0 C/B Goofy Cat
1.2 C/B Children
0.1 W/C wife (recently returned to the wild!)

I don't start getting worried untill after 2 months. They have plenty of reserve from the egg yolk to carry them for a while. Having said that I try to get them to eat as soon as possible. What kind are they? This might make a big difference. For instance Thayeri and Alterna can be difficult to get feeding.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

they are brooksi's! two have now eaten, 4 pinks died for no reason!
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1.0 C/B Brooks
0.1 C/B Lavender Brooks
0.1 C/B Snow Brooks
0.0.1 W/C Scarlet King (RIP)
0.0.1 W/C Eastern Milk
0.1 W/C Yellow Rat
0.0.1 W/C Western Garter
1.0 C/B Black Lab (RIP)
1.0 C/B Min. PoodleXAmer. Eskimo hybrid
1.0 C/B Goofy Cat
1.2 C/B Children
0.1 W/C wife (recently returned to the wild!)

Put them in a ziploc and freeze them. Then try in a few days. Brooks usually eat with no problem. But there are tricks to get some stuborn snakes to feed. Brain feeding usually works great. But I would give them a week or two more before I start tease feeding, and force feeding is always a last option. I posted a video on how to teas feed above. But try cutting the pinky's head slightly and squeezing out some of the brain material and put the snake with the pink in a deli cup before you try tease feeding. They should eat with no problem when they get hungry. Like I said, Brooks usually don't give a lot of trouble.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

In my experience there is no one species that is more pickier than another......
I have bred LOTS of thayeri and other mexicana.....
These have a reputation for being stubborn feeders.....But the stubbornest feeders I ever had was a Cornsnake clutch and a Holbrooki clutch.......
I believe snakes have individual feeding responses...You can see that when a couple eat right out of the egg, a few eat right after they shed then the others hold out for some reason......

Stubborn brooks usually need other snake scent.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Stubborn brooks usually need other snake scent.....

I have found that it is usually the eastern kings that are stubborn and need snake scent. I had some Edsito Islands at one time that were horrible to get started.

Maybe the Floridana that cross into the intergrade zone of eastern kings produce the snake feeders. But i would not know. I don't have any of these.
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www.Bluerosy.com

The only reason why I mentioned that is because I hatched out 3 floridana clutches back in 2005 and the stubborn ones loved checkered garter scented live pinks.........

What do you suggest a stubborn brooks/floridana needs to kickstart its feeding response Rainer?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

What do you suggest a stubborn brooks/floridana needs to kickstart its feeding response Rainer

Just live pinks. Nothing else added. Some will take F/T on their first meal. but I start all of mine on live because it is easier than removing stinky pinkies and figuring out which ones ate wnad which didn't. Once they eat a live on they recognize a FT as food. I never had one refuse unless they were sick runts or deformed.. These are florida kings, they are like living garbage feeders. Once they are on hoppers, they eat anything dead or alive in their path. I feed my small ones cchicken heads. Just snap the heads off frozen chicks. Saves big money and you can feed the while body to the adults.

Some babies take their time to eat their first F/T meal. i have seen them go from 1 week after shed to 4-6 weeks later. I am using these numbers from entire clucthes which seem to be on the same time frame. Some clucthes eat early some you just have to wait them out a few weeks. But they all eat when they are hungry and I don't sweat it. Some people just don't have pateince and fool with the aniamls to much and that can screw them up.

When newborn neonates don't want to eat then just feed them live . Gets their digestive juices flowing and they imprint on what a frozen thawed mouse is. That does the trick. Just make sure to follow with frequent feedings or they might relapse. keep stuffing them with 3-4 pinks at a meal or as many as they will take in a single sitting.
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www.Bluerosy.com

So you suggest that ALL Florida King hatchlings will ALWAYS eat f/t pinks or live pinks????????

Sounds like a sales pitch to me........I call BS.........LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

John I thought you were giving the Thayeri a little positive plug too. I never had any snakes give me trouble like these thayeri. Ofcourse you know they have a little ruthven in them so maybe they get it from the Dad's side of the family, lol. But to the original Poster I say don't forget split brain feeding! It works probably 80 to 90 percent of the time with reluctant eaters. The smaell of freshly squished mouse brains is so tempting, I almost want to try it, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>John I thought you were giving the Thayeri a little positive plug too. I never had any snakes give me trouble like these thayeri. Ofcourse you know they have a little ruthven in them so maybe they get it from the Dad's side of the family, lol. But to the original Poster I say don't forget split brain feeding! It works probably 80 to 90 percent of the time with reluctant eaters. The smaell of freshly squished mouse brains is so tempting, I almost want to try it, lol.

Lol.....I think somewhere I said that stubborn feeders occur with all species and subspecies of kings.....

Btw.....have you ever had an entire clutch of hatchlings that wouldn't even take brained, live pink covered with a black deli cup? And tease feeding did not work?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

"Btw.....have you ever had an entire clutch of hatchlings that wouldn't even take brained, live pink covered with a black deli cup? And tease feeding did not work?"

I have had plenty of clutches where all or just about all eat with no problem. But Thayeri don't come close. Alterna can be a pain also. But I don't remember having so much trouble with them, as I do with these hayeri. I will say they are so pretty and variable that they are worth the hard work!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>"Btw.....have you ever had an entire clutch of hatchlings that wouldn't even take brained, live pink covered with a black deli cup? And tease feeding did not work?"
>>
>>I have had plenty of clutches where all or just about all eat with no problem. But Thayeri don't come close. Alterna can be a pain also. But I don't remember having so much trouble with them, as I do with these hayeri. I will say they are so pretty and variable that they are worth the hard work!
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>>King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
>> J Sierra

See what I am saying is you have hatched very few clutches of thayeri to come to that conclusion.....You are saying thayeri in general "don't come close."........You should say YOUR clutch of thayeri don't come close.....
I've had many clutches eat f/t out of the egg and many that were stubborn...

Rainer is saying Floridana all eat unless they are weak, deformed or have some Eastern in them....Another broad statement.....As I have had a few Floridana clutches that had some stubborn feeders.....

My point is this......Stubborn feeders aren't species specific......Even some hardy Splendidas, Californiae and Corns can be a pain in the arse......The worst clutch I have ever had was a Holbrooki clutch....the eggs were wild collected by my buddy Todd.....I incubated them and all of them hatched.....None of them subdued to all the tricks and techniques I do with Thayeri, Alterna, Mex Mex, Greeri and Pyros.......I actually only got 4 out of 8 to survive.......

I can get EVERY one of my Mexicana Kings to survive.......Maybe I have a green thumb for them and know what they need better than I know what a getula needs......

I can say that my first step with thayeri is this:
1) Raise the temps...Let them know it is Summer and time to feed.....Make sure they have a HOT spot......90F.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I have not had but one clutch of Thayeri to deal with and I will have another this year. So you are absolutely correct. I shouldn't make such a broad statement with so little data. I guess I was assuming since I have heard this to be so and now I have an experience that coincides with what I have heard. I see Chris has a post where he says most of his Thayeri are eating some are taking their second pinks already. That is Awesome! I keep thinking much has to do with the family line. Genetics has to be a majore role in this saga. I have had corn snakes when I was a kid that I would buy as hatchlings that would not eat pinks, also. I don't see that problem today, except for some exceptions. I can admit when I'm wrrrr, wrrrro....wrrrong, ha ha good post!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I said Chris put up the post about Thayeri eaten , but it was BOB. That's what I get for working 12 hours everyday, rush.. rush.. rush!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>I have not had but one clutch of Thayeri to deal with and I will have another this year. So you are absolutely correct. I shouldn't make such a broad statement with so little data. I guess I was assuming since I have heard this to be so and now I have an experience that coincides with what I have heard. I see Chris has a post where he says most of his Thayeri are eating some are taking their second pinks already. That is Awesome! I keep thinking much has to do with the family line. Genetics has to be a majore role in this saga. I have had corn snakes when I was a kid that I would buy as hatchlings that would not eat pinks, also. I don't see that problem today, except for some exceptions. I can admit when I'm wrrrr, wrrrro....wrrrong, ha ha good post!

No problem Jorge.......
BTW.....I have one female hatchling that has eaten 5 times in the last 3 weeks.......I do have all of them feeding on live/brained and live pinks except for 4 stubborn ones.....These 4 will go through the "steps."
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Rainer is saying Floridana all eat unless they are weak, deformed or have some Eastern in them....Another broad statement.....As I have had a few Floridana clutches that had some stubborn feeders.....

Okay I am going to do my FR impression..

I don't know your husbandry but maybe they are just stubborn for you. Or maybe you did not give them enough time and they weren't hungry? Or maybe they were from a weak line or had eastern in them. Or maybe you waited to long to get them started on feeding. That can shut down a snake too.

Aa breeder of many different snakes I have never seen easier captives and i think you and most others would agree. That was muy point in the statement i amde. Not a broad statement but comparativly.Florida kings have to be the most prolific first time feeders of any kingsnake. Certainly Calif kingsnakes, splendida , niger and others, don't beat the Florida king in feeding response.

Here is another bold/broad statement. ..Basically if ya can't get a Florida king to eat you might as well give up keeping snakes. HA HA HA! Of course i am joking and don't mean you. but there is some truth to this. I think that most with any experince keeping large collections of different spp would agree that FL kings rule when it comes to first time feeding and others greybands, zonata, etc suck at it.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I get your point Rainer.....
My point is there are stubborn feeders in every species / subspecies...Sure Alterna, Thayeri and Zonata have a bad wrap.....

And I agree.....Floridana are just "easy" overall....Females can be down wind from the males and become gravid.....Babies hatch out 2 feet long and eat small adult mice out of the egg.....They are truly fool proof.......Again, Rainer...Just screwin with ya....
I might even have to get some multi hets from you so I can see some variability within one clutch........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

You know, I told my wife you were being mean to me so she made this video for you.

www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=100356933354008&saved

You can see she does not have much to do with her time, lol!
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www.Bluerosy.com

I wish Ana and you would come down to Daytona again this year......

That was hilarious........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Ya she got her own sense of humor. And she did that vid all on her own without any of my help.

I just made reservations at the cheap Super 8 motel in Daytiona . The Hilton was already sold out. So at least i have a place to stay in case we do decide to come down.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>Ya she got her own sense of humor. And she did that vid all on her own without any of my help.
>>
>>
>>I just made reservations at the cheap Super 8 motel in Daytiona . The Hilton was already sold out. So at least i have a place to stay in case we do decide to come down.

I remember when Ana said that at the dinner table in Daytona last year......"If you put a corn snake in a microwave will it make a pop corn snake?...."

LOL....We are in the Super Ocho Also......

Come on Rainer......I need someone to hang with.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I agree come to Daytona.....we have cookies!

Very nice corn.

So you suggest that ALL Florida King hatchlings will ALWAYS eat f/t pinks or live pinks????????

Sounds like a sales pitch to me........I call BS.........LOL

No, I think I mentioned ALL babies except for weak, sick and deformed babies. Also i meantioned somehwere on anoither post those Floridana that intergrade eithe rnaturally or unaturally with Eastern kings.

Honestly can you think of a better eating kingsnake than a florida king? I can't! and that is not bias. Florida king are as good as it gets when it comes to captive conditions. They are stupid proof and why i chose to work with them < !!
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>No, I think I mentioned ALL babies except for weak, sick and deformed babies. Also i meantioned somehwere on anoither post those Floridana that intergrade eithe rnaturally or unaturally with Eastern kings.

Then I guess the few floridana that I hatched were weak, sick, deformed and had a little eastern in them.............just screwing with ya Rainer...........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I'd throw splendida in the mix as being at least as or in the #2 spot, never have probs with those guys, matter of fact, they'll eat any bad eggs with no hesitation, like a floridana on a turtle nest!
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Todd Hughes