Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I figured I'll ask all hobbyist and breeder in here. Most boa morphs prices and sale are going down hill. I was at San diego super show and most people buying balls. I myself love boas ever since i can remember. I got my own average boa collections. I noticed that a lot of boa breeders going to the dark side of ball
pythons. Is it because all this legilation banning 9 contrictors.
Im not a ball guy and will never be !!! I not a fan of a snake that seasonally wont eat for long period of time. It's too stressfull.pinicky eaters and the head look like a duck with no legs . lol Still some good looking dwarf boas out there smaller than a balls. Also a lot of amazing boa morphs and combo popping every year.. Any concern , comment and input will be apprieciated.
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Albert
Getting back from boa hobby!!!
0.1 fiance , not super tame, but getting there!! lol
0.1 Sharp line albino , poss het sharpsnow
1.1 TH Sharp snowglow
1.0 CA stripe proven super hypo
1.1 Hypo nics
1.0 Emerald line sunset
1.1 pure Cancun boa
0.2 Betty line hog island
4.4 CA hypo/hogs het full body stripes
0.2 CA poss. super hypo
1.1 DH CA type2 ghost
1.0 CA Tpos nic
2.0 Red Line Jungle ,dad and son
1.1 hypo jungle
1.1 Dogs
Lots of feeder mice and rats !!!

….for the select few that actually turn a profit in this hobby. Ball pythons hold their value a lot more than boas do, easier way to gain capitol. You're right, there are new morphs every time you turn around with balls and nothing really exciting in the boa world lately. Sure there is a ghost this, albino that, and anery this popping up once in a while. But for the most part, unless something really interesting comes up in the boa world, it's going to continue to go downhill. When I first got into this hobby, albinos were going for about 1500 a baby, now look at them, a measly 250??? that's ridiculous if you ask me. But on the turn side, I'm in this for the fun of it, I'm one of the few that love anery's and ghosts so that's what I'm going to continue to make. Am I going to actually turn a profit from what I put into this hobby? Not a chance in hell, but it's fun and I love it.

morph here morph there. I think by far boas are still my fav. snakes. We all know boas are not too far to have amazing morphs combos future wish. I mean for example: aztec,keywest,maroons, PPTpos,even jungles are getting better with selecting breeding. Dont forget CA Morphs also: blood,leopards,type 2,jaguars,tiger,motleys and the pied boa. Just imagine the possiblities with all this combos and every year it gets better.
No matter what I will be a boa fanatics for life. For me , this is all bout hobby, not for the reason to make profits. Just my two cents.
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Albert
Getting back from boa hobby!!!
0.1 fiance , not super tame, but getting there!! lol
0.1 Sharp line albino , poss het sharpsnow
1.1 TH Sharp snowglow
1.0 CA stripe proven super hypo
1.1 Hypo nics
1.0 Emerald line sunset
1.1 pure Cancun boa
0.2 Betty line hog island
4.4 CA hypo/hogs het full body stripes
0.2 CA poss. super hypo
1.1 DH CA type2 ghost
1.0 CA Tpos nic
2.0 Red Line Jungle ,dad and son
1.1 hypo jungle
1.1 Dogs
Lots of feeder mice and rats !!!

You're right, there are new morphs every time you turn around with balls and nothing really exciting in the boa world lately.

Have you been following the boa world lately? Lots of amazing stuff in the works and lots of cool new animals have popped up this year. I feel that we still have lots to come out of the boas that we work with. We just need to stick with it. Ball pythons are a little different as they are all ball pythons. Where boas fall back to locale and what not so people don't just breed any boa to any boa anymore. Ball pythons you can breed him to her and him to her as they are all the same animal. IMO
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I agree. Boas have a long way to go. In fact, just the tip of the iceberg with domestic morphs. Nothing but a bright future without the haters.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I really hope the boa market doesnt become like the ball python market..... Everyone has jumped on the ball python bandwagon..... SInce you can take one male and knock up 10 ball python females a season... it makes them seem like the new cash cow.... but I think in a few years skeptics will have the last laugh.. there are so many ball python morphers.. that the market is going to be completely saturated....

THere simply are too many snakes being produced... there are only so many consumers... The design of the morph market is just doomed to fail long term.... WHy?? because there arent low level consumers in this market.... the clients are only willing to spend thousands on a snake if they can breed them as well... SO your customers will soon be your competitor....

Yes... in the beginning.. there will be people that will make lots of $$$$... but long term... there will be few customers....

The market has already been forced to start exporting because of the lack of consumers in the US....

It's supply and demand....
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Its a tough call. I believe the feds have driven the market down , as well as more and more breeders producing incredibly nice animals. Competition and competitive price wars will always be part of a capitalistic society. I know that first hand, when I paid close to 5 grand for 1.1 adult het sharp less than 4 yrs ago. It is also difficult when one person is in the business for life , and the other is a hobbyist. One may have way more overhead, and the other may just need to break even. I would definately say that if you have an opportunity to work outside of the industry in the real world, it can do nothing but help when it comes to deciding if this is a business or a hobby. Look at any hobby. The prices will fluctuate. I dont see sharp albinos going for $2500 anymore, but to get an average price of 400-700 is still out there. Classic automobiles will flucuate in value by thousands of dollars every few years. Just my opinion, and by the way if anybody wants to by some sharp strain albinos for $2500 send them my way. LOL

boas have a lot more babies than a ball

Of course there is no better feeling than working with animals that you truly love. I believe you should work with the animals that you love regardless of the profit or investment of it. I myself have both boas and balls and enjoy the both but the advantage that balls have on boas are that balls have way more morphs, they stay smaller, they are not as flighty, and most importantly they are legal. What boas have on balls are that they have great eating responses, they dont have eggs (no incubation), and they are better to handle than balls. Balls just sit in your hand. Boas on the other hand make you feel like you are handling a snake. The thing about most boa morphs is that most of them all look ugly or normal looking when they are adults, except for aztecs and albinos morphs.
Eventually the boa market will pick back up when maroons, vpi T 's, and aztecs are more available.

I have seen hundreds of boa morh adults that are amazing as adults. I disagree with the point that you made there .Here is one example. 4 yr old male sharp sunglow. (orangetail line)

I agree. Nice adult. I forgot to mention that except for albino morphs most of them tend to look "normal" when they are adults.

every market in the country is struggling the snake market & non-snake markets alike! but with so many people jumping on the ball train and it seems as though anyone who gets there hands on a sexual pair seems to produce them! eventually there will be so many ball pythons in the market they to will have a serious decline in there price! over the past 21 years ive been doing this ive seen certain species go from most popular to most avoided! and back again i do agree some of the boa prices have gone so low its kinda a joke & the other thing is they never seem to start out nearly as high priced for new morphs or combo morphs in the begining i have both! boas however are my favorites just a much more regal animal. i dont know if anyone can predict whats going to happen with are market! give it some time i belive they will come back and come back stronger than ever. there are still so many things to make with boas and selective breeding efforts will benefit anyone in the end. as weve seen when selective breeding is carfully thought out truly amazing animals are created! i will never give up the boas! imo the best snake on the planet! dont count them out yet! lol....

It is several factors. I believe the main one is loss of confidence in alot of breeders. I know far way to many stories where someone like yourself purchased a very expensive new mutation only to have a "well known" "reputable" breeder flood it the follwoing year for pennies on the dollar. With the excuse that no one was buying them, so they lowered price DRASTICALLY by over 50% to move stock. Alot of them got greedy and over produced by the hundreds. There are plethoras of all the "hot" morphs, and no one to buy them......its like Dogs and cats, why breed if no buyers? The few buyers that did buy, are still walking funny.....

=)

That said, they are a depreciating commodity that requires an influx of capital just to maintain. There are way too many uncontrollable variables. Not a good business model. You've got to love it to stay in it. Could be too many hacks in tha biz. There will always be a market for quality and innovation from reputable people. Just so long as the haters can be kept at bay.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

And you know what? There are actually people out there that will intentionally sell damaged goods and they don't mind taking top dollar for them, either. Let somebody else eat it, right?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Had a guy sell me a sick animal, saying it was 100% perfect with a guarantee. I pulled her out of the box, she was 6ft and about 6lbs. She had mouth rot and an upper resp. as well. Called him up to compalin, and he said it wasnt sick when he shipped Her ? Of course the guaranty meant that it was guaranteed that I wouldnt ge my money back. This was a while ago, and the snake is doing great. Makes you sick doesnt it ?

I love Boas. Not much on Balls. I do worry about the regulators, legislators, and the media driven bad publicity...driven by the AR agenda.

Balls got a free pass (for now). Boas still on the hypocrites' chopping block. Not too many want to see their five figure investments become worthless overnight, with the stroke of a pen.

I know Jeff is doing all he can to prevent this from happening. Is truly one of my heroes. There are others of course. One of the best aspects to this hobby/business/genre is the people.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

What's happening to the boa market is a perfect storm of decreased demand from general global economics, saturation of environment, and increases in success in breeding.

So first off, there is a big decrease in the money being spent on snakes. It might actually be the thing people need less than anything else. With unemployment high and the economy entering what some fear is the "3rd Depression", people aren't going to buy snakes if they have to worry about food for themselves and their families.

I have a buddy who breeds rodents as part of his livelihood. He told me today this is the first year that adult mice are outselling pinks. His conclusion: people aren't breeding as many snakes because they know they cant sell the babies. This is good in that we'll decrease supply, but the prices of special animals will suffer.

Specifically about boas... to me it seems that there are so many morphs that no morph in particular stands out as "the one to have". When there are no morphs, an albino makes huge waves. Now there are several morphs that are outrageous, and they compete against each other in the market place.

One of my local herper buddies bred a pair of boas he got in trade for a Ball Python of average value. The boas were not considered special in any way. The babies from the boas were albino and anerythristic. The true provenance of the snakes is unknown. What we do know is that there are enough of these morphs that het's are dumped at a price for "normals" and some breeder down the line might end up with a clutch of baby boas that 20 years ago would have paid off his house or more. Now, IF they sell at all, they'll pay for the hobby for the year.

I'm bummed that the "industry" will be changing so much. It was nice to think that lots of folks could make a living breeding and selling snakes. I just don't see that reality continuing.

Doug T

Doug Taylor Reptiles