Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I understand that feeding live prey has consequences, but I keep reading posts about people trying to get their snakes to eat f/t, then getting frustrated and worried about their snakes.
Solution?
Toss a live mouse in with them. They'll probably eat it.

Snakes are built to kill rodents. It's what they do.
And if your snake is eating well on live...why switch?
If it ain't broke...DON'T FIX IT.
Especially with a species that is notorious for picky eating!

It's my honest opinion that if you are uncomfortable feeding your snakes live food...you shouldn't own an animal that eats live food.
And before someone says it...yes I eat meat, and yes I've killed animals...so save that argument for someone else. Haha.

This is just my opinion/venting. I'm not trying to pick on anyone...I'm just saying, is all...
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I respect your statement and your opinion but I would ask the same question in reverse.
Why bother with live food when F/T is so convenient?

I store a years worth of food in various sizes in a chest freezer in my garage. Once a week I thaw what I need, open up the snakes drawer, hold it in front of them with hemos and BAM they grab it and gulp it down.
No stink, no waste, no rat food, no rat bedding, no escapees, no running out of a certain size. Simple!

For years I bred mice and rats and I finally got sick of it. I have fed F/T exclusively for the last 15 years and would never go back. Simpler is better.

Just my opinion,
John

Ditto on that. F/t is convenient to the extreme. Especially for those of us with limited rodent breeding space. There are multiple downsides to breeding/feeding live:

1) You have to go to the store and pick up a live mouse each week to feed your snake(s) or maintain a bunch yourself. This results in either having to care for mice (not always fun) and/or getting the stink eye at the Petstore when you buy them.

2) Space and smell. They need space or they won't breed. Then I need buckets of food and droppers for water. Then you need to grow them out. Then you have to clean up after them. You may end up spending more time with the rodents than your snakes!

3) The dang things die. And when they don't do this on schedule, you can find them with your nose, and that sucks. Dead mice smell horrid.

So if you can get your snakes converted over to eat F/T regularly, you can purchase a year's worth of food from RodentPro, pick them up, and not worry about it again for 12 months
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly
2.0 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I don't think Spades was trying to say that feeding live is better or more convenient. Just that if you have a snake that won't take frozen, then just feed it live. Some won't eat f/t, or it's just too much of a hassle. I fed f/t for a while and it was more of a hassle for me, I now feed all live, they eat everytime now. I have kept snakes for over 15 years now and the only problem I have ever had came from a jumbo rat that I fed my JCP, and that was just a small bite that went away after a few sheds. I have seen numerous posts of people complaining that their snakes won't take f/t, like it's the end of the world. Just toss a live one in and let it be. Just my outlook on the situation.
Eric.

Exactly.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Agreed
Only one of mine takes f/t 100%
I keep a stock of frozen of various size, and the others take em sometimes if I wiggle em for 15 min and heat the head of the dead rat a bit.

I guess I just don't get why they wouldn't eat F/T. I haven't offered a snake live food in 15 years! They don't even know that live food exists! And they all eat consistently every week. I just bought a new hatchling pin and I set her up in a secure quiet box, left her alone for a week, and she took a F/T mouse on the first attempt. Didn't even hesitate.

Having said all that though, I can't fault the original posters statement that some people might be better off just going with live if their snake is being resistent.

In the end everybody must find what works and is conveinient for them. I know what works for me.
John

I'm not arguing against it when it works, only for people who keep having repeated failed feeding attempts with f/t.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

its funny because i feed all my colubrids f/t and all my balls live. and only for the sake of cost. i breed just enough rats to feed my collection of balls and sell just enough to cover the cost of food for the rats. buying f/t rats is expensive if you have to have them shipped in and cant just go pick them up. my rats pay for them selves. i spend maybe a half an hour to an hour a week dealing with them. the smell sucks but its a comprimise for the free snake food. hopefully i will have an out building built next year for them.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

And I've never met a corn snake that has turned down a meal...
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Other than the convenience of being able to offer frozen thawed, avoid high costs having to buy at a petstore, or finding a local breeder willing to sell you live animals for snake food, there is avoiding risk to your snake.

Even a fast striking snake still needs about a minute or two to kill a rodent. A bad strike/hold could result in the snake getting the rodent's incisors embedded into its body, or a slow striking snake may find itself bit by a scared rodent. This may be rare but it is always a risk. A deep rodent bite may go unnoticed on a snake and get infected...causing issues for the snake later on, or if it ends up bit in a sensitive spot (ie on the head or mouth, or inside the mouth) it may put the snake off food for months...maybe off that particular kind of rodent completely (ie a rat eater may completely refuse rats, so you are stuck offering it half a dozen mice instead, or some other rodent species).

I have several ball pythons who are finicky when it comes to eating. Some won't eat frozen thawed consistently, others refuse it altogether. Its a royal pain, as most are females I would like to get up to ideal breeding weight but they linger just below that magical 1500g mark. I breed rats just to ensure I do have live rats of the appropriate size available and I tend to try fresh killed first, to avoid the risk of my snakes getting bit. But they won't always take fresh killed either. But with the heat of the summer, my rats just won't breed...so I am stuck trying frozen thawed and hope for the best. So far, they won't take it...at least not consistently. It makes finding live rats of the appropriate size a pain.
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PHLdyPayne

Bull crap on the getting bit part i feed a spider male whos 1400grams a small rat and it doesnt have a chance i will not feed med or larges cause yes they are strong.I feed smaller items to all my snakes and have never had a problem.Ive seen the little smalls try to bite and never make a mark.I think its how you do it.Take care with what you do,and you wont have a problem.And yes i feed him more cause he eats small items but it works.
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1.0 100%het albino
0.1 100%het albino
1.0 pastel
0.1 spider
0.1 pastel
1.0 butter
0.1 albino hc
1.0 orange ghost
0.1 100%het pied poss het albino ringer
1.0 med pied
0.1 pewter
1.0 pinstripe
1.0 pastel

20 years -live food-one baby ball eaten up by a hopper.....yea...that was a wussy snake....

and I have seen an 11 foot retic killed and chewed up by a smallish large rat.....

.....not often...but it happens....snakes are so stupid ./...

....
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..................tie a rope around his waist , and throw him in the swamp........!...ha....ah ha ha....

I understand your opinion, but lot of people don't want to feed live or can't afford to (need to go buy some each week or need to breed them).

I prefer to offer FT, even if that means I need to trash some cause they decided they didn't want to eat it.

The problem is WHY breeders feed them LIVE. When they could feed them FT from the early beginning and people who would buy these snakes won't have problems.

I only see the market of ball pythons going that way. The more the public (people who don't breed them) will want to buy theses snakes, the more these will want FT eaters.

I started my babies on FT this year without problem. That's possible for most of them, and for others you need to switch them slowly. But once done, it works.

What I don't understand is why some people feed live and mostly feed live MICE. That's the worst thing. I got 2 snakes that were fed live mice, one have switched to FT rats but still not the best eater and the other one is the worst feeder. But I won't resign on feeding live mice, cause they still eat what they need and I hope they will change. It's easier for me to feed FT too, no allergies etc...
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love this world, don't hate it.

From a business stand point you are putting more time and money into feeding f/t than you would live.

You have the time invested in pulling out 100's if not 1000's of rodents to thaw. If something comes up you are ties down waiting on them to thaw as they will spoil if left out.
You then have to dangle them in front of a good portion of the animals so they will take it. Count in the amount of waste when certain animals do not want to feed, or are in shed, want live, etc,etc.

The loss of $ on throwing those rodents away along with time involved rules out any reasoning for feeding f/t on a large/commercial scale.

With live rodents you pull a bin drop a rodent and continue on until your done. Give them a hour or two and go back and pull rodents. Whatever is not eaten save for next time, no waste, less time happier snakes.

If you have a smaller collection or keep boas or less picky animals then f/t is great. With balls they prefer live as a rule so give them what they want..

Not to mention...keeping rats is not at all expensive.
I have 9 snakes (10 tomorrow) and I spend about $20 for 2-3 months of bedding and dog food.
Building a rat rack cost me roughly roughly $35 in lumber, $15 in hardware cloth and $20 in tubs. After that investment, the rest was a breeze.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

$30 for bedding and food...but still...for 2-3 months that's not bad.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I have personally tried to start 20 baby balls on fresh thawed and ONLY got 3 to take FT... how do you get ALL your hatchlings to take a FT for their first meal?
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Brian Hettinger
480 Pythons
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