Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A thread about the market for boas got me thinking about this.

Why does everyone who gets a boa, have the goal of breeding it? As if that's all these animals are good for and if you're not planning to breed a boa, there's no point in having it.

And just so people know I'm not all high and mighty, I'm the same way.

What is it that makes us want to do that? Why can't we be happy with these animals as pets?

Do we think we have the magic recipe to make the ULTIMATE version of whatever animal we just bought?

Is it the excitement of producing boas?

The desire to make money?

....?

Why do we feel the need to breed these animals?

Also, related, but unrelated...

Does anyone else find it HYSTERICAL when a person posts a picture of their first boa and then states, "I can't wait to breed him/her"? I just keep thinking to myself... this boa is 20" long and you haven't even fed it it's first meal in your care and you're already talking about breeding it!?? ...Aaaaaaand then my mind wonders why everyone always wants to breed everything they get...

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I think it is attached to the gene that makes us want to keep Reptiles Jonathan Brady.

I obtained my first Boa in 1984. At the time, except for the guy I bought her from, I didn't know anyone else who even owned a Boa let alone bred them. He said he didn't think he could be done very easily as he had been keeping Boas at least since he obtained the 7' Boa I bought from him in 1976. He didn't like his "light" Colombian Boa and was looking for a darker one. I liked "Big Momma" just fine. He never had any babies pop up.

I then set about finding somebody who could help me get the answers so that I could find a mate for my new "pet". Not a mate for company. A mate for making baby Boas! Eventually I somehow got the number of Don Hamper, who was not home when I called. His wife gave me the number of Bill Page who explained to me how to visually differentiate between males and females.

I drove to his place in Subury Ohio from Clarksburg West Virginia which was about 200 miles away. I had a great visit with him as I continued on my quest to find a mate to breed with my Boa.

The rest is history Jon. It's part of the desire to have Herps for most people. It was for me even though everything I had heard was that it was not possible...

Here I am with my first pair of breeders in 1985 before I knew if I would actually have any babies or not.

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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Goes back to when my dad bought the family it's first boa way back in 1968 from a reptile store in a little town called Sherman TX. We had lived in Quito Equador for several year prior and had seen some crazy animals especially huge boa's from the Amazon, so after dad finished school and bought a house we got a True red-tail. FYI, we didn't think of breeding him. That day was what has led to me doing what I do today. Take care. Andrew

"Does anyone else find it HYSTERICAL when a person posts a picture of their first boa and then states, 'I can't wait to breed him/her'? "

no, I don't find it "HYSTERICAL" at all.. not even 'LOL.' I agree with Jeff.. it just seems part of the excitement of keeping herps or other living creatures...

and... I would venture to say that it is highly unlikely that "everyone has always wanted to breed everything they ever got".

Read the entire last paragraph, especially the last sentence. Then remember that I said the following:

"And just so people know I'm not all high and mighty, I'm the same way."

Here's the last paragraph...

Does anyone else find it HYSTERICAL when a person posts a picture of their first boa and then states, "I can't wait to breed him/her"? I just keep thinking to myself... this boa is 20" long and you haven't even fed it it's first meal in your care and you're already talking about breeding it!?? ...Aaaaaaand then my mind wonders why everyone always wants to breed everything they get...

What I meant by that is that it's hysterical, because I see myself in that person, and I always want to breed everything I get.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I still may not get it.
I thought you were asking a question that I could give an answer to.

my apologies.

here are two that I can't wait to breed.. both came from litters that were born during april '09. the pics were taken after their first few sheds - they are both taking small rat.

09 male jungle 100%het anery, 50%het albino....... with white scales....

09 male hypo harlequin possible jungle. Mother is a normal harlequin produced by Gray Rushin and the father is a hypo possible jungle from Pete Kahl. This is the only litter that the father has sired for me so far.

Patrick

I know many people who just keep reptiles as pets like you would a cat or dog or ferret or hamster etc etc. Not everyone buys to breed. I breed my snakes just so I can make something new and even more interesting. I like to sell the extra offspring to pay for my hobby not to get rich quick. I'm an HVAC tech and work 8-4 or later as my source of income. I do this for my own interest my friends thing I'm crazy for wasting my time with my snakes but its fun for me and its always exciting to see little babies hatching from their eggs or to see a pile of goo with some baby boas all unique in their own way. I feel the boa market is slacking on the mutation side but I have a few imports that may be something and Im sure there are other people who have stuff that will prove out just takes some time till they breed them. I feel boas aren't as variable as ball pythons thats why there are less mutations but maybe that will all change one day???

Have you ever produced a baby boa? Have you ever seen a boa birth? I'm assuming you have. Its one of the most exciting things I've ever witnessed first hand. Going to reptile shows, finding the boa you want to get and selective breed, choosing the mate, watching them grow and change colors, introducing the male to the female, watching him court her, seeing her swell like a balloon, pacing back and forth waiting to see little babies, finally seeing little baby boa heads, doing the boa dance, cleaning off boa goo, picking your favorites, seeing them after their first shed, holding the little guys, watching them grow up... Is that enough reasons? If you don't feel excitement from that, you might be in the wrong hobby.

I love it. I've loved it since I was a kid.

Michael Burton

Nicely said

Perhaps you skimmed over the part of my post where I dedicated an entire paragraph to the single following statement...

"And just so people know I'm not all high and mighty, I'm the same way."

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

My bad. I must have skipped over that part and got the wrong idea about your post.

Nice summit salmon jungle you got there.

Michael Burton

I got my first snake in 1976 and I am still a Non Breeder. (Man, that didn't sound right.) But I have bred a pair of Ball Pythons a couple of times in the past, but I just to trad them into a local Reptile Shop for Frozen Food to help pay for the hobby.

Here's my hobby, I can keep about ten snakes for the amount of time cleaning, and money for food I want to invest in. Then I know the type of Morph I would like, and I buy it, instead of buying a pair to make it. So all of you breeders out there keep breeding because that's the only way I can get my Morphs.

Lastly I think you are basing your philosophy that everyone needs to breed their snakes on these forums, and Auction sites that are heavily used by the so called breeders and hard core herp hobbyist, as oppose to the population that just buys one or two Boas just as pets.

Hey Jonathan,

It seems to me that some people are taking your post in a negative light, I didn't get that impression from your post at all. I think this is a good topic for discussion.

I got my first boa in '98 (not quite old school lol). Already had a ball python my roommate and I had adopted together after many nights watching the Crocodile Hunter. I also had a corn snake and iguana. They were just pets, interesting to watch and interact with and all my friends got a kick out of them. I read a couple websites (anapsid mostly) and had the boa constrictor and corn snake manuals. Things were going fine for years. Then... I found kingsnake(dot com) and hanging around this forum I caught the breeding bug. Prior to that breeding them hadn't crossed my mind at all. I was fascinated and wanted to experience it for myself. I also started spending way too much time on these and other classifieds and all the exciting new morphs, projects and refinement that was being done blew my mind.

I totally understand someone new to the hobby seeing all of this stuff right away and getting swept up.. it *is* very exciting and there is nothing like that feeling of seeing new life for the first time and knowing you had a (small) hand in it's making. However, I do giggle seeing people getting their first baby boa already planning out what to breed it to (in 3 years even!).

Anyways, it's early and I need to go get coffee. Hope I didn't ramble on too much. Have a great day,
-April

(pic is me back in the day with the first albino I produced)

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

Some great responses from folks here! Thanks!!

It's funny, just the other day I was mentioning that the forums tend to give us the perspective that all boa keepers are fanatical like we are and that everyone should remember that most boa keepers have 1 or 2 animals and that's it.

Turns out I need to remember my own advice as it seems like I even got sucked up into the notion that we're all crazy loonies looking to grow our collections, and breed, and become known for the very best animals

uhhhh.... oooops!

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Some people actually need to take the time and read something thoroughly.

JB it is so bad for me that I got back into bearded dragons. lol

Are you saying that in fact I am not loony and crazy!? That's a relief!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

I'm just saying that so are the rest of us, so you're in good company

See you in Daytona?

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I'll be there and just as loony and crazy as I always am, only even better looking than the last time you saw me as is always the case.
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Haven't read them all but...I think first off you're a person that likes reptiles. Second, you're a person that specifically has a penchant for Boa constrictors.

Got the basics out of the way. On to the specifics...it is an exercise of the Gray Matter. Not all people like to use their Gray matter. The people that oppose us for example and those than mindlessly follow their lead. It's an intellectually personal challenge. An experiment in cause and effect. Followed by great personal satisfaction if successful. Especially if one's theories hold true.

Of course, there is also the "Jack and the Beanstalk" syndrome -- everybody hopes for something like the Hypermel to pop up, don't they.

Jonathan, I think you're OK, by the way.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I would like to believe that there are much worse addiction to have than our beloved boa addictions. In today's world if you think different, look different or even act a bit different the world wants to ridicule you. With what is going on in the world today, provides proof that the so called "normal" people are in left field so I don't mind if i am referred to as crazy or a loony by others that just don't understand. I hope to meet as many of you as possible in Daytona. Safe travels to all that are coming down!

I've kept all kinds of reptiles since I was a kid and never thought of breeding them. Just loved to make their cages as close to natural as possible and watch them for hours. As I grew, my collection went from many, to a few, to one. Until I played around on the net and found KS and it sparked my interest once again. One baby GTP turned into 40 animals in less than 3 years (and $40k later). Told someone else around that same time "if you aren't happy at your job, try to make money at something you like to do". I soon realized that I needed to follow my own advice. Not long after the porn thing didn't work out, I decided learning and breeding snakes and lizards was a better fit. It will be a long while till I turn a profit but I'm having the time of my life!!
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2.3 BCI
0.3 BCC
1.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3.4 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.1 Kimberly Monitor
1.3.7 Crested Gecko
0.1 Striped California Kingsnake "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
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