Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a quick couple of Q's for ya sir. My buddy and I have been in some debating about who first started breeding true locale boa's. He say's most all BCC's came from Jim Peters stock at one point in time and most all Pastels are from his BCC pastels lines from way back. He told me he heard all this from a man in Florida who has been in close friend ship with him over the last decade. So I want to know if you think this is true or not. Was this man responsible for most pastel BCI's we see today and most BCC's today ?

Here's the word straight from the Man !

. . . .Lar M

Click on the below Link
The History of Pastel Dream Colombian Boas

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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

The first "True Locality" Boas I bred were Colombians. That litter was born in February 1986 and included many Pastels. I had not identified or described Pastels yet, which I did about ten years later.

All the Boas I bred successfully were of one locality or another until I bred my first Panamanian x Colombian Hypo successfully to a Colombian Pastel in 2000, I believe it was. Those were the first Boas that I produced that were not of Colombian or Peruvian or Bolivian or Hogg Island or Argentine ancestry separately. I had never crossed any of those locality animals with other localities. Few others did either.

Very very few Boas were of differing localities were crossed if you use the broad locality terms of man made boarders. Deliberate locality crossing was nearly unknown till Albinos were bred into Surinams and Argentines in the mid 90s. I only heard of one crossing that was admitted to have been done any time before that. Of course most people exclude Colombia as being a locality for Boa Constrictors for some reason. I'm not sure if you were excluding them in your question or not. So locality Boas, in the broad sense of the term, were what was bred first in captivity and for years without any thought of breeding differing localities.

Identifying localities of Boas from anecdotal information regarding the origination of Boas can rarely be known with absolute certainty. Some information has been especially sketchy with some localities in particular. However, that was primarily the case with Boas from localities I personally either did not work with or was not successful with.

The notion that a country of ancestry origin cannot be used in describing a Boa is a silly suggestion that almost nobody adheres to, and almost nobody is going to adhere to. Regardless of the validity of the locality claim, people are going to do so. The information can be ignored by anyone that doesn't like it. If you don't agree that a locality label can be placed upon an animal, simply filter that label out when you hear it. Because those labels are going to stay. Some with good anecdotal locality information. Some without. But the labels will stay and individuals will decide what they think is accurate and what they don't think is accurate. For most a locality label is just helpful in having some idea where an animals ancestors may have come from, and not something that anyone is going to stake their life upon. For anyone to suggest this not be done, they might as well be rolling a snowball up hill in an avalanche. It is the way it is.

Unfortunately, anecdotal info is really simple to fabricate. Here is an example. In the early 1990's I had 2 pair of Silverback Bolivian Boas. The real deal from Joe Terry who produced them in 1986 I believe. I bred and produced over 100 of those babies in a few years. These were the first F2 Silverback Bolivians. A year or two after I started having them, Mark Bell produced some as well. Mark had all the rest of those Silverbacks from Joe Terry. We both produced the real thing. Next thing you know, everyone from everywhere was producing and selling Silverback Bolivians despite the fact that none of the Bolivians that either Mark or I had produced could have been old enough to reproduce yet. So to sell their babies, many were calling any Bolivian they produced Silverbacks and now it is next to impossible to find any legit Silverback Bolivians. So very quickly anecdotal information can be stretched at best and fabricated at worst. The answer to this for some is to ignore all anecdotal info, and demand that others do the same. For me to ignore the information that I personally have on many of my bloodlines, that I know is accurate is as dishonest as fabricating such from whole cloth. It's not going to happen with me.

One of the benefits of having done this a long time and having a long history and having worked with quite a few different localities and bloodlines, is I have pretty reliable info regarding the country of origin of a lot of my animals. For to ignore that would be just plain silly.

Jim Peters has made some of the best Pastels anyone has ever produced. The first time I met or talked to Jim Peters was in about 1998 at the big snake party in Florida. Dennis Sargent introduced us. I did obtain two females that Jim Peters produced in about 2001 or 2002. I bred one of those two females successfully for the first time in 2003. I do not know when Jim started producing his Pastels. Certainly back into the 1990's. He also produced great Peruvian Red Tail Boas as well going back to the 1990's.

You would have to ask Jim to find out the specifics of where he obtained his original animals. Dennis Sargent might know as well because they may very have come from him.

I don't think I did a very good job of answering your question, mainly because I really didn't understand exactly what you were asking, but I sure did do a lot of babbling didn't I?!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

BCC's are still being imported in from the Guyana shield region... As well as some farm bred stuff coming out of Peru.. THere are several recognized variants of BCC... so saying that they all come from Jim Peters is a bit farfetched.....

Most of the Brazilian BCC stock came from Lloyd Lemke.... THere are only a few other known bloodlines of brazilian bcc in the US...

Jim is known for his Peruvian stock... Several of these descendants still show up on the market....

You really have to take locality data with a grain of salt.... a great deal of it has been fabricated for marketing purposes.. on our end.. and one the end of the exporters... the exporters know what is hot on the market.... all they have to do is lie on the CITES paperwork.. sometimes lying gets them a higher price....

Still... even with that cites paperwork... it only tells you point of export usually.... Not collection point... these boas can travel great distances and exchange hands several times before making it to the US consumer....

THe industry has developed it's standards for each locality.. but if we actually did some research in country I'd be willing to bet our perceptions would change quite a bit... Very RARELY do boas come with very accurate provenance....
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

"BCC's are still being imported in from the Guyana shield region... As well as some farm bred stuff coming out of Peru.. THere are several recognized variants of BCC... so saying that they all come from Jim Peters is a bit farfetched.....

Most of the Brazilian BCC stock came from Lloyd Lemke.... THere are only a few other known bloodlines of brazilian bcc in the US...

Jim is known for his Peruvian stock... Several of these descendants still show up on the market....

You really have to take locality data with a grain of salt.... a great deal of it has been fabricated for marketing purposes.. on our end.. and one the end of the exporters... the exporters know what is hot on the market.... all they have to do is lie on the CITES paperwork.. sometimes lying gets them a higher price....

Still... even with that cites paperwork... it only tells you point of export usually.... Not collection point... these boas can travel great distances and exchange hands several times before making it to the US consumer....

THe industry has developed it's standards for each locality.. but if we actually did some research in country I'd be willing to bet our perceptions would change quite a bit... Very RARELY do boas come with very accurate provenance...."

I have noticed that. Generally people (regarding W.C/C.F BCC) label the grey purple boas 'Guyanan' and the light tan coloured BCC 'Suriname'. Unless they where there themselves collecting the BCC I wouldn't trust them at all, they could have passed through many hands and labelled differently before ending up in the said collectors/breeders hands. People tend to go with "Suriname" as the best and view the "Guyanans" as second best, plain marketing scheme.. I have seen some "Guyanans" off the Peak Farmers website which surpassed any "Surinames" I have seen. I have often laughed out loud at the "Pokigron surinames" claims... uh huh and my Brazlians where collected from just around the corner of Miss Hampshire, 10 rico gardens Sao Paulo Brazil...Sure they where...

Regarding C.B animals is a different story, I'm certainly not going to question people who have been doing this year in year out for many years and know what bloodline they are from.. who are we to say different? There is marketing schemes in every snake group, that's common sense and plain to see. Anyways, this has nothing to do with the original post so apologies for going off topic.
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MUMS. OUT of Christmas wrapping paper? Simply convert birthday wrapping paper by adding "Jesus" after "Happy Birthday."

LOL.... Yeah I have a boa collected by a one legged man with a moustache, under a tree, on the North side of a jungle finca, 32.5 miles North of Manauas, Brazil....LOL

i have a boa that was sold to me as a Pokigron....LOL.... so I call it "allegedly Pokigron".... I think Gus has some Surinames with very good provenance to Pokigron... but they are the exception...... I too have seen some Guyanas that will blow your socks off... but you're right... they tend to grade shipments out into Suriname and Guyana.... based on color... even though they are from the same shipments..

It's pretty riduculous....

My biggest goal is.. to produce amazing true red tails.... Now I dont plan on breeding my Brazilian stuff to non-Brazilian stuff.....
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Cool thanks a lot for all your guy's in depth info about my post! I knew when my buddy stated he heard about that man knowing Jim Peters and stating that most BCC's and BCC pastels came from his original stock sounded very weird.