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Do eyes of a lavender albino look red or is there no mistaking lavender vs. a T- hatchling because these two really look red. This is the first time I have hatched out any kings other than axanthic and normals so I am stumped.

Lavender Brooks

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I posted the previous post from my cell phone that's why it was so abrupt. There is a lot of confusion over the T-Negs and the Lavs, so don't feel bad. I went round and round with Rainer over that one in the picture I posted. I purchased it from a well known breeder who has them advertised as T- Neg. I even spoke with him on the phone before I purchased it. He seems convinced they are T-Neg albinos. But Now I have to agree with Rainer that it is a lavender. I have a hard time telling the pink eyes from the ruby eyes, if you know what I mean? But one thing is the T-neg have more white than the yellow and the reds are deeper. Also you can see the purple look of both our animals. I want to say that I believe that the breeder I purchased my snake from, which will remain unamed, honestly believes he has T-negs. I don't for one minute believe he is trying to be misleading in any way! I have seen quite a few advertised as T-Neg some by very experienced breeders, so there is a lot of confusion over this. What are the parents genetics? Do they have T-neg in their blood or Jelly?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

The female's background is anyone's guess but the male is from Rainer so who knows what's packed in there.

Rainer's hets, as he will be the first to tell you, are mostly possible hets. The last few years he has been breeding to make double hets to combine morphs. So when double, triple, quad hets are bred back to each other it creates a TON of unknown possible hets. I'd be tempted to say as much as 80-90% of normals available now(even wholesale) are at least possible het for something. There being upwards of 9 different recessive genes the chances of you getting exactly what you want from possible hets isnt likely. Good news is most of these individual genes are now priced within range of anyone. Bad news, you are about a decade behind Rainer producing anything super-cool.

Rainer's hets, as he will be the first to tell you, are mostly possible hets. The last few years he has been breeding to make double hets to combine morphs. So when double, triple, quad hets are bred back to each other it creates a TON of unknown possible hets. I'd be tempted to say as much as 80-90% of normals available now(even wholesale) are at least possible het for something. There being upwards of 9 different recessive genes the chances of you getting exactly what you want from possible hets isnt likely. Good news is most of these individual genes are now priced within range of anyone. Bad news, you are about a decade behind Rainer producing anything super

Only posible hets that "may" have made it into the pet market are males. And even then you don't know what they are possible het for. Good luck trying to get something out a lone male. The Floridas morphs have not been around long enough to get these by luck yet.

What i do think is happening is new/different phenotypes are being bred in to the older traits and that changes the look.

Today the KEY traits are the peanut butter, T neg and Jelly to make something new. The old traits are all basically $50. animals:

lavender albino
anery
axanthic
hypo
Whitesided
Mosiac (not really and old trait but still readily avliable for $75.-$90.)

Some of the double het of the old traits are just now starting to show up. The Hypo WS, Ghost WS and lavender WS for example.

Also the Mosaic was bred into the lavender and we have a few lav Mosiacs out there and hypo Mosiacs.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Sure but I know the Bells have been wholesaling hets as normals a while now. I mean how many "het for nothing" floridas are out there? How many wc?? I wouldnt be surprised to see anything anymore.

Sure but I know the Bells have been wholesaling hets as normals a while now. I mean how many "het for nothing" floridas are out there? How many wc?? I wouldnt be surprised to see anything anymore

Well the Bells don't have any T negs or peanut Butters or Jellies. So those traits are not in their stock. Maybe they have sold possible het snows. Even if some lucky schmuck raises them up and they prove out they are a $40-$50.snake. Unless one gets lucky and breeds a pos double het pair of Ghosts or Whitesided axantthic possible hets together. But i don't see those snakes being sold in pairs at Pet shops like Pet-Smart. Even if they were and Joe Schmoe did produce a snow. What he going to sell it for? $35 bucks?

What i am saying is the high dollar possible het Florida morphs are not in circulation yet. That might take another 10 years. And mostly will be pos hets and not definite hets. I bet in 10 years Peiblad balls will be less than $100.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I bet in 10 years Peiblad balls will be less than $100.

I say 5........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

I'd take your bet. I don't know about 10 years but in 5 I'm thinking maybe 300. On most breeder sites I check pieds are still 600 and they seem to be getting worked into more morphs.
Frankly, I'd love the florida king market (or the king market in general) to be as robust as the ball market. I can't believe how well they've held their price given everything that's happened since the 90s--recessions, laws, etc. I mean the basic albinos are still 300 bucks and they've been around since like 95 or 96 right? Pies are still 500 , and even basic codom combos are still in the several hundreds.
Personally I'd be happy to have my possible hets prove out on any 2 traits and get to sell offspring for 100 bucks a piece and have that price hold. Hell, I'd be happy to sell normals for 30/pop too I guess
The combos I want to produce eventually:
mosiac albinos and peanut butters
whiteside albinos and hypos
axanthic albinos.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

So......you don't think pied bps will be $100 in 5 or 10 years?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Not in 5. I don't know about 10.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

>>Not in 5. I don't know about 10.
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LOL...I will look you up in 2015.....hehe
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

There are just to many peibald hets out there for the prices to remain stable. Eventually the market is going to bust. And when those hets produce babies we will see the prices come waaay down.

W are not just talking big Ball python breedrs here. if it was up to them the prices would stay up. it is the average hobbist who is not looking to make a lot of money and then must move the snakes out before the wife or GF does.

What is worse is balls are not the most prolic snakes. Eggs are hard to manage and they are just not as relaible as colubrids. So most of the hard work for Ball folks is either get get stuck with more piebalds or sell them at a lower price.

Not until people will stop breeding them will the pies go up in price a again. But that is unlikely to happen. I predict Piebalds are the next snow honduran.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I would not say I am quite a decade behind him. Rainer and I both like multi hets/ possible hets but I prefer to use a yard stick to measure them up if I can. I came by two possible triple het Hypomelanistic X Peanut Butter X Axanthic females that will come online next year along with a known triple het male. Also up 2.2 het T- though I will probably use a jelly male just to make it interesting. The next year any of these could be possible because of a mix up when someone labeled a clutch.

15.82% Normal
5.27% Jelly
5.27% Anerythristic
1.76% Jelly, Anerythristic
5.27% Axanthic
1.76% Pewter
1.76% Anerythristic, Axanthic
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic
5.27% Hypomelanistic
1.76% Jelly, Hypomelanistic
1.76% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic
1.76% Ghost
0.59% Pewter, Hypomelanistic
0.59% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic
0.20% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic
15.82% Lavender
5.27% Jelly, Lavender
5.27% Anerythristic, Lavender
1.76% Jelly, Anerythristic, Lavender
5.27% Snow
1.76% Pewter, Lavender
1.76% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Lavender
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Lavender
5.27% Hybino
1.76% Jelly, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
1.76% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
1.76% Ghost, Lavender
0.59% Pewter, Hybino
0.59% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
0.20% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender

So I am not quite ten years behind Rainer, he is rolling more dice looking for 7-11 but I am still rolling. This is why I like dealing with hets because as long as you enjoy the animals and the path taken to get them to breed you can’t loose.

15.82% Normal
5.27% Jelly
5.27% Anerythristic
1.76% Jelly, Anerythristic
5.27% Axanthic
1.76% Pewter
1.76% Anerythristic, Axanthic
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic
5.27% Hypomelanistic
1.76% Jelly, Hypomelanistic
1.76% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic
1.76% Ghost
0.59% Pewter, Hypomelanistic
0.59% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic
0.20% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic
15.82% Lavender
5.27% Jelly, Lavender
5.27% Anerythristic, Lavender
1.76% Jelly, Anerythristic, Lavender
5.27% Snow
1.76% Pewter, Lavender
1.76% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Lavender
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Lavender
5.27% Hybino
1.76% Jelly, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
1.76% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
1.76% Ghost, Lavender
0.59% Pewter, Hybino
0.59% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
0.20% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender

LOL! I just read your list of snakes.
Honestly with those numbers even i would have a hard time following it.

But it will pay off during breeding time. Just feed the heck out of those females.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Well the numbers are quite off but the given the traits which could be contained is near accurate except jellys would not be possible because only Peanut Butter or T- was present.

Those percentages are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAy off! Post the parents lineage and we can figure out what are the exact percentages. Bottom line, when breeding poss het x poss het, better than 50% of your offspring will be normal looking possible hets. Right?

>Post the parent’s lineage and we can figure out what are the exact percentages

Well they have Peanut Butter, T negative or Jelly in them along with 2 other traits axanthic and hypo or lavender and anery.

Since there was a mix up as to which female laid this clutch the parentage is not known so percentages can’t be calculated and the only reason the list shows percentages is because I was in a hurry and just cut and pasted it from the program. The list is fairly accurate of what could crawl out since any of those genes could be involved. After their first year of breeding it should be obvious what genes that clutch contains and I can narrow down the list but until then it is up in the air.

>Bottom line, when breeding poss het x poss het, better than 50% of your offspring will be normal looking possible hets. Right?

Statically 75% of the clutch will look normal but 50% of the clutch will be carrying the hidden trait.

I would not say I am quite a decade behind him. Rainer and I both like multi hets/ possible hets but I prefer to use a yard stick to measure them up if I can. I came by two possible triple het Hypomelanistic X Peanut Butter X Axanthic females that will come online next year along with a known triple het male. Also up 2.2 het T- though I will probably use a jelly male just to make it interesting. The next year any of these could be possible because of a mix up when someone labeled a clutch.

15.82% Normal
5.27% Jelly
5.27% Anerythristic
1.76% Jelly, Anerythristic
5.27% Axanthic
1.76% Pewter
1.76% Anerythristic, Axanthic
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic
5.27% Hypomelanistic
1.76% Jelly, Hypomelanistic
1.76% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic
1.76% Ghost
0.59% Pewter, Hypomelanistic
0.59% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic
0.20% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic
15.82% Lavender
5.27% Jelly, Lavender
5.27% Anerythristic, Lavender
1.76% Jelly, Anerythristic, Lavender
5.27% Snow
1.76% Pewter, Lavender
1.76% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Lavender
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Lavender
5.27% Hybino
1.76% Jelly, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
1.76% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
0.59% Jelly, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
1.76% Ghost, Lavender
0.59% Pewter, Hybino
0.59% Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender
0.20% Jelly, Anerythristic, Axanthic, Hypomelanistic, Lavender

So I am not quite ten years behind Rainer, he is rolling more dice looking for 7-11 but I am still rolling. This is why I like dealing with hets because as long as you enjoy the animals and the path taken to get them to breed you can’t loose.

You were lucky and smart to jump on those when i listed them. I don;'t kid around when i say it is a good deal. You were the fist to actually research it and take the whole clutch.
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www.Bluerosy.com

As you said I know what you produce so anything could be in their genes and with five females and two males the odds of something neat popping out is pretty high.

There just hasn't been enough time for the T negs to be bred and pop up in collections.

They are far more Peanut butters out there than T negs. But just a couple years ago, when the Peanut Butters became popular. People that had regular hypos said they popped out a Peanut butter.

When you see a T neg albono in person its like encountering a venemous snake in the wild for the first time. You always think a water snake is a moccassin. Or a gopher snake is a rattlesnake. But when you finally run into a venemous snake. There is no doubt the shape of the head screams venemous.

Same with the T neg.

You guys need to buy one and you'll see.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I did get to see the T- you had at Daytona and I never thought these could be T- but the eyes did throw me. Do all lavenders have ruby eyes or is this just a trait that pops up from reduced Tyise?

Rainer I do want to buy one but the day after I do you post pics of something else I want as well so I'm waiting to save on shipping.

>>I did get to see the T- you had at Daytona and I never thought these could be T- but the eyes did throw me. Do all lavenders have ruby eyes or is this just a trait that pops up from reduced Tyise?
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>>Rainer I do want to buy one but the day after I do you post pics of something else I want as well so I'm waiting to save on shipping.

Lavenders in all kingsnakes have ruby eyes because they still have some melanin.....melanin mixed with the color of the blood vessels (red) in their eyes produce a Ruby coloration......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com