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In response to my B.c.c. thread below...

BrandonSander Jul 29, 2010 01:33 PM

I started a new thread since the topic of the thread below has kind of turned in a different direction.

I appreciate the quick responses everyone gave. I tend to agree that the chances of a Peruvian X Suriname cross are nearly 100% but I have the sneaking feeling that anyone involved in such a cross or with knowledge of it having been done either didn't see this thread or they felt that it would be best if they didn't reply to it.

As far as my beliefs (and that is exactly what they are - MY beliefs, not necessarily YOUR facts) go, I agree that most any cross of B.c.c. to anything else really isn't going to improve upon what is already out there. I do recall seeing pictures of a Suriname X Hypo B.c.i. cross and I did think that those babies were pretty nice looking. I probably wouldn't have done the cross myself but once the babies are here there is nothing that can be done about it so a person may as well accept them and (if they can) attempt to find some beauty in them.

Keeping the localities separate is one thing I do strongly believe in, but I was just curious as to whether the cross I mentioned had ever been done. It seems to me that those people out there that do cross B.c.c. into something else tend to use Suriname localities the most - which might be saying something about Surinames in general.

As far as the Suriname vs. Guyana debate goes, I know it will never REALLY be put to rest. Personally, the way I look at it is that snakes do not know, understand or care about political borders or lines drawn on a map. I tend to think that Suris and Guyanas are pretty much the same thing. If people want to label the purple/dark ones Guyanas and the light/clean ones Suris - then so be it.

Since animals of both appearances are found and exported from both countries, one way to possibly settle the disagreement would/could be simply to agree (as a community) that

1.) They ARE the same locality.
2.) Instead of looking at the country of origin as a classification as the animals worth, look at it as a simple descriptor. Example: You import a dark purple "Suri" from Suriname - let's just call it a Guyana. Not because it actually came from there but because we as a community already tend to accept the definition of a dark purple Suri/Guyana as a "Guyana" the same could be said for light clean Guyanas - just call them Suris - not because they are from that country but because they fit the accepted description.
3.)In the end, instead of worrying about classifying Suris and Guyanas according to their (hoped for and disputed) country of origin, we could "lump" them together as the "Guyanese Sheild" shield locality and then accept the fact that there exist two different "looks" to this one locality. Peruvians have various "looks" to them, but we all accept them as Peruvians... right?

I don't know, this is just my opinion and if I missed something, somewhere, please fill me in. Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture (beyond the economic reasons, of course).
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Stay United!

I'm still not sure if it's weird that my best friend is a two year old boa named Ronin. He's quiet, non-judgemental and listens... what more could you want?

Replies (2)

AdamBotond Jul 29, 2010 06:42 PM

Well, I have to disagree with you at some point.
1. They are not the same locality, but they are certainly from the same geographic area, Guyanan shield as you said. They are certainly closely related, but they tend to have distinct look. OK, true, there are specimens from both locality that are similar to the other. But just because they look similar I would not say "lets mix them, they are the same". I would not do that, because they are isolated from each other and are genetically different. As you know a boa from central Suriname will never meet a Guyanan boa, they will never share genes. Also, if you take a look at a redtail from lets say North Suriname and another one from South Suriname they do look different. They are from different, ISOLATED populations and won't share genes either. I truly believe that we must keep some limits in breeding if we want to preserve the localities pure. If we dont do that, soonly we can breed Peruvian to Surinames, Venezuelan to Brazilians and so on. After all, they all are redtail boas, Bcc. I hope we will never end up with mixed locality redtails.
2. You are totally right, I have experiances that practice from sellers more than once.
3. Have to disagree again. If we would breed Surinames to Guyanas, beacuse "they both from the Guyanan shield" then we could do the same with Suriname to Brazilian, Peruvian to Ecuadorian, Costa Rican to Panamanian, etc. I don't think thats a good idea.
This is my opinion. Let me now what you think!

Regards,
Adam

KaiYudSai Jul 30, 2010 06:21 AM

I repeat what I posted in the other forum....

There isnt 1 "type" that represents guyana vs 1 "type" that represents Suriname.... the variation is on a continuum... this "type" is an artificial thing people are creating based upon what they "think" surinames and Guyanas are supposed to look like..... this is in fact how the majority of people think these boas are... but all you have to do is take a look of a single litter of pure surinames or Guyanas and see the extreme variability

A political border is useless when classifying any organism.. it is geography and habitat that changes things.... not a line in the sand...
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

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