Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw a post or two on the RI forum about these, which I feel, needs clarification on a couple things. Attempts to provide verification on the country of origin of the parents (Guyana and/or Suriname) were made. I interpret them as misleading, though not necessarily incorrect as far as I know. Firstly, they imply that there was only one litter, not two, in 2002 and that it was from a Guyana X Guyana. Someone reading this, who may have acquired one of these from somewhere other than the breeder Tom Carlton, may want to be aware of which litter their boa came from. Of the two litters, Tom sent me many pictures from both litters. He said one male fathered two females and that the male was supposedly from Guyana and that one female was supposedly from Guyana and the other was supposedly from Suriname and he advertised them as such. Eventhough that was only 8 yrs ago it did not seem to matter much as CB 100% BCC litters were still rare and in high demand.
Secondly, it was stated that these animals went through me implying “all” of them. I only bought a handful from the Guyana X Guyana litter. Not because they were supposedly pure Guyana’s but because the individuals that I liked best happened to come from that particular pairing. I have a large Lichanura trivirgata collection, they are all CB but the parents of some can be traced to a specific hillside and I can talk to the people who collected them! I can’t deal with even thinking about locality BCC, I just label them from what I had been told.
Anyway to add confusion to this clarification (LOL), here is another Guyana vs Suriname test. The three pictured adults below were the parents of Tom’s two 2002 BCC litters. Guess which is the Suriname.
Next I will show a few babies from each litter. This is even a harder test, as you will see. Everyone who cares about locale or even country of origin Boaconstrictors need to spend the time and money and travel to the place they desire to own boas from, sweat and get bug bitten like crazy for two weeks and risk getting robbed or harvested for your organs or fat and maybe you will get lucky enough to find a pair of dark, skinny, scarred, tick & worm invested ugly boas so that you can be happy. I went snake catching in South America in the early 90's and was sick for about 10 years afterwards. Not even sure that I have fully recovered, I may be just used to feeling sick now.

Which of these three newborns were from which of the pairings above (i.e which are Guyana x Surinames or Guyana X Guyanas)?

Again, which of these three newborns were from which of the pairings above (i.e which are Guyana x Surinames or Guyana X Guyanas)?

Mike,

I too only label my animals as what they have been told to me – no more, no less. Are the three Boas that I acquired from you from the Guyana litter or the Suri/Guyana litter? If you tell me that the animals that I acquired from you are from a Suri/Guyana breeding, I’m cool because they’re still incredible snakes! I only contacted Tom concerning his Guyana litter, not a Suri/Guyana litter. I felt confident buying them from you that they were Guyanans. My reason for the widespread email and forum post were to potentially put to rest rumors that they were from a group breeding of Suris and Guyanas, among other things. My efforts have been to obtain as much background on these Boas as possible, not so much to establish these animals as a “locale.” Tom couldn’t give me any region information. I don’t see how anything that I have disseminated has been misleading. If it potentially was, I’m glad that you have stepped in and provided the information that you have on these Boas.

Thanks,
Adam

Adam - I think Mike just said the got his babies from the Guyanan Guyanan pairing....

I think Mike wasn't disagreeing with anything you had been told he was just providing additional information.

Isn't this stuff fun....

oh....I know I've told some of y'all about the Columbian rainbow boa I caught in BOLIVIA in 1994. It really is a shame the hobby uses political lines to distinguish animals.

Mike - I still wish I got that girl from you....at least she is in good hands.

Take care,

Kevin

Yes, the Guyana is in good hands.

Kevin is right. I was just adding info. The rumor of "group breeding Guyanas and Surinames" was not dispelled and actually is a fact I was told per my post. Yes, the 2.1 trio of adults you got from me were from the Guyana X Guyana litter. I know I have sent these to you in the past but here they are again for all to see. The female is the first one and the others are the males. She produced two litters for me (07' & 08').

These were from the Guyana X Guyana litter. The first two were from the small group that I owned or still own. The first one was in shed but that is my Golden Guyana Girl wo is presently gravid. The second one is a female that I bred to the Marzec male (the one I sold to Nichole) in 2007 and I kept most of them. I did not own the third one.

The first one was from the Guyana X Guyana litter. The other two I lost track of so I am not certain. I did not own any of these. I wish I could have bought more at the time. These were some of my favorite "BCC" of all time.

Two more I did not own and lost track of which litter.

Funnily enough, those are my favourites as well! Those babies are outsanding BCC. I think people take the Guyanan/Suriname thing far too seriously. As it has been pointed out, you really can't tell. But I can say that those babies are everthing I look for in a Suriname/Guyanan BCC. Interesting read and a welcome change.
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Cool Mike. I feel confident about these animals in every way. Accurate background info was my goal, and at this point I feel that I definitely have the whole story. The Guyanas that I acquired from you are the cornerstone of my collection. All of my long term selective breeding goals surround this line. I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again, I've always felt privileged and honored that you gave me the opportunity to work with such magnificent Boas!

Adam

I knew that if I sold them to you I would not have to worry about the care and appreciation that they would receive and that it would almost be like I still had them. Like some sort of a partnership or something. You are definitely on a short list in my book. Thanks for taking them and you know more are coming.

I don`t see what the big deal is, the two countries border each other, just stepping over the border isn`t gonna make a difference, and boas aren`t always shipped from country of origin.
Mike

The first one is the Guyana male, the second one is the Suriname female and the third is the Guyana female.

These are from the Guyana X Guyana litter

These are from the Guyana X Suriname litter.

with the variability in BCC, you can not tell a Suriname from a Guyana or from a cross between the two. In fact, you can not tell in many cases which sibling came from which litter. The Suriname had wider stripes and smaller peaks than the Guyanas which is against the stereotypical thinking. The baby with the thinest saddles and the baby with the thickest saddles were from the same litter.

Very informative Mike. Thanks for posting all of the pics. As a group it seems that we take things way to seriously. Time to get back to just the fun of working with these Boas! Btw, feel free to post pics of the Golden Girl anytime, lol! She's still one of my all time favorite Bcc.

Adam