Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As many of you know I've decided to stop breeding Ball Pythons as I've never had a great interest plus I only did 40-50 clutches annually. I've been mostly a lurker this year and haven't posted hatchlings until now. These two hatched out of a Pastel mother bred to either a Fire or a Calico male. One I'm sure is a Firefly albeit a good one but what is the other one? I don't believe it's a Calico Pastel but I'm stumped and any help would be appreciated. Ball morphs are my weak link as I've been a lot busier doing other things but I'm reasonbly good at identifying morphs but not this one..thanks

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

these snakes are beauties!!! firefly for sure on the upper one..Its a crazy thing to suggest but maybe a hidden gene in the fire or pastel?? or maybe the female held sperm? I don't know what it is...what I do know is that its awesome!!

Kyle&Todd

I have a duplicate of each that hatched also that I didn't post. This has really confused me and even the Fireflies BLOW AWAY the ones I produced last year....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

almost looks like a super fly but can not be if there was no fire pastel involved just a fire. very wierd but what a beauty

There was ONLY a Calico and a Fire with this Pastel female. NOTHING ELSE and last year just a Fire...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Its realy cool thats for sure.
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Vince Pramuk []__[]

Sure the pastel female isnt a low quality super and you hit the odds on the super pastel fire?

That bottom one sure looks like a super!

If it was it was a lower Super Pastel than I thought possible. It didn't look like the ugliest Super I've ever seen. She was just a pretty Pastel I thought and not even as nice as my best ones...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

As someone else mentioned, retained sperm makes the most sense to me. Was she bred to a pastel male last year?

I'm well aware of stored sperm etc. but last year she was bred to a Fire...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

theres no possible way it can be a super. it was a PASTEL paired with a FIRE and a CALICO. takes 2 pastel parents to be a super. id put my bet on both fireflies
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

everyone is thinking super because of the white head and awesome blushing. but IF these pics are before they shed then its possible the color and body may color up little and look more like a firefly. as for the head its possible that it is a paradox of sorts. look at the way the pattern on the neck stops abruptly! as if it were cut off.

my quess is paradox firefly.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

looks like a Firefly and a superpastel

Actually one thing I know it's not is a Super Pastel. It doesn't have the base color and is genetically impossible..If anything Im thinking Super Pastel Firefly as this Fire male is the one that last year produced a Firefly from a normal to him clutch. I've never seen a Super Pastel Firefly before and have no idea what they would look like...I'm befuddled...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom, post a pic of the sire please! I really want to see a Fire that produces FireFlys when bred to a normal!
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

It was bred to a pastel...

Here is the pic I had in photobucket which was taken about 2 years ago. Last year I believe I posted a more recent pic here but not sure. In any event this is the male when he was younger and smaller and he looks better now. I've sold him as I'm selling off all the Balls at the end of my egg season this year. In any event I have more pics on a disk but don't have the time right now to go thru them but will later. Here you go...thanks

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

In this pic he was just getting a cloudy belly getting ready to shed. He wasis a stark white one with a lemon overtone in real life...

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom,

I'm having a hard time following you here.... "It's genetically impossible to make a Super Pastel with this breeding but the sire, which is a Fire makes a FireFly(Fire Pastel) when bred to a normal". ???? Huh... How is that possible?

I have personally produced 5 FireFlys(Fire Pastels) but they came from Fire X Pastel.

Beatiful ball pythons Tom! You just left me wondering on this. Did I miss something?
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

once again, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be a super pastel. he didnt pair 2 pastels
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

Nothing is impossible in genetics, just improbable. For all we know something could have triggered the female to throw double copies of her gene which happened to land on these 2 babies. The two snakes not pictured are "Shark Faced" as we call them at Bob's so... something genetic, or something environmental could be at play. I'm no biologist but, I've seen lots of weird crap hatch.

One of my favorite movie quotes "Life finds a way" its very true sometimes.

yea but the odds of something like that are slim to none that its honestly not even worth considering. also didn't he say he had several that came out that way? that makes the odds of it happening even lower. id still say they are just nice fireflies
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

Tom, I do not see the calico hitting in any of those two snakes. You mentioned that the female was a pastel. By any chance, was she a Citrus Pastel (Amir's Line)? I know his Citrus Pastel line has a hidden gene where some show the trait, some are carriers and some do not have it at all. The head pattern in the snake pictured below appears to have the (white head) apparent with that hidden gene. My guess would be a (hidden gene) firefly. If it was not a Ciotrus Line Pastel- then I am clueless as to what you have there. Nice looking animal.

-Jason Weinrich

Personally I think they're both fireflies, one is just much much nicer then the other.

Actually, looking at that funky pattern, I'm wondering if it might also be a classic jungle as well as a firefly?

Tom, Here is my Super Fly the day after hatching taken in natural sunlight. What was the total outcome of the clutch? You said in an earlier post that you had 2 FireFlys and 2 of the wonky super looking other things, is that right? Was there anything else? Are both of the super looking things female? Just curious...

Jeff Byers

Yes both are females but the other has a bad overbite and will not survive but is even nicer than the one posted. That pic of yours looks very much like mine...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Since you are getting out of Balls, send the bottom one to me and I will let you know what it produces

Dave

Tom,
This is one we produced this year from a bee to a dsd line pastel.(super pastel) Here is his pic and he looks similar to what you got there. We do not have any fires at all so fires had nothing to do with this breeding.

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Dixie Serpent Den
Rachel & Justin

Yes but I had ONLY Calico and Fire males in with it....I've hatched a number of Super Pastels, Bumblebee's, etc but nothing like this one...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I wasn't saying it was a super pastel cause off your breeding it couldn't be. I was just showing that we produced this boy from a bee x dsd pastel breeding which is a new line we are proving out. He is similar to yours is all I was showing. We are still trying to figure our own stuff out. Maybe making that will change your mind on getting out of the balls )
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Dixie Serpent Den
Rachel & Justin

Well I may keep this one, a pair of Fire's from the same male, and a male Killerbee just to fool around with now that you mention it...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com