Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My two fav morphs, ghost and golden peanut butter. If I were loaded, there would be a picture of a pewter ta boot! Thanks Rainer!
Ryan

Golden PB

Very nice looking morphs.
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Ryan,

I actually confirmed something a couple days ago that will make you even happier.

That pair of ghosts i sent you. Well i had 6 axanthics come out along with them. But there is one I noticed now after shed that is much lighter. But still dark. It is a ghost (hypo x axanthic) and it looks nothing like your light looking ghosts. So that proves your Ghosts are actually double homo-Peanut Butter x axanthic (aka a Peanut Butter X axanthic double homozygot.

I only produced 4 of these in existence. 2 were from last year. So that is all that is out there in existence.

I bet they will look even better as adults and if you breed them back to each other I am sure the look will improve even more so. You might even get a TRIPLE homo PB x hypo x axanthic. As the pair is pos het for hypo as well.

I was not positive these were PB x axanthics homos until i hatched out a reual Ghost sibling. BaM! what a difference. Night and day. It was in shed when i sent yours , but now i see it and it is a normal ghost. I just wanted to be sure they were PB ghosts and not hypo ghosts as i sold them to you.

Sop you should be real happy with that and don't worry i will get you that other thing.

I am just estatic for you that they are PB x axanthics!~~~~!!

I will get a pic of the normal ghost (hypo x axanthic)and post it for you in a couple days, as so you can see the difference for yourself.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Yeah that little ghost in that picture has ruby eyes.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I am guessing that many ghosts(but not all) would also have deep, deep ruby-red eyes if examined very closely in strong light due to the hypo gene. Sort of like many hypo Hondo's can have them(or not) depending on how much hypomelanism is displayed by the individual snake, and what amount of hypomelanism was inherited from the parents.

No doubt in my mind that this can vary from individual to individual to whatever degree.

I agree, that is a real nice looking ghost for sure!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I can't remember if my ghost has ruby eyes? But after I posted, I also realized some could be from the flash, maybe?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

I agree, that is a real nice looking ghost for sure!

it is not a ghost. Well not in the common sense. It is a PB x axanthic. Which could be called a ghost but with the PB gene. I don't want to call it a PB Ghost because i am waiting to produce a triple homo (PB x Hypo x axanthic) which would be called a PB Ghost. or maybe I should invent a new name fro that triple homo when it pops out..Oh these terms have even me confused. I just want to make it simple so that people understand.

The ghost from this line pictured in the post above.. Produced some pretty dark (hypo) ghosts. Which is a hypo x axanthic homo. So the difference is obvious between it and the PB x axanthic homo..

Just saying.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Yeah, I totally understand what you are saying in that it is very different because of the PB gene being involved too. But genetically speaking, the deep ruby-red eyes are still a result of the hypomelanism being expressed in there.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I agree that a PB Ghost is a triple homo (PB x Hypo x Axanthic) and that a name sooner later will be chosen for it. I also think names should be chosen for Snows and Ghosts that are made with the Anery gene to differentiate between the already established morphs. It is also my opinion that Lavender Albino just needs to be Lavender and T- Albino needs to Amelanistic. It conforms to the majority of other species labeling of morphs, it is easier for someone that is new to Florida kings to understand and it is just easier to stay.

But a snake with any dark pigment cannot be "amelanistic". The word itself literally means absent(no) of melanin.

Lavender is not real confusing, but calling a white snake and a dark brown one amelanistic certainly would be...LOL!

People just have to learn what the heck they are looking at. There is nothing simple, or "cut and dry" about genetics whatsoever, only certain things regarding it.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

What dark pigment on a T- are you referring to?

I think Doug meant calling anything like T positive/lavender, a dark brown snake,a white snake etc, would be wrong. Oaly a T negative red eye alino should be called an amel..

At least that is what i think he meant.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Yes, I was referring to some of the T-positive(lavenders) in the hobby, definitely not a white T-negative amel.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Ok, my suggestion was to drop the albino off of Lavender to help keep the confusion down between T and T-. I just plain hate saying T- or T- Albino I would prefer just Amel. Rainer I understand why you market your Amels as T- because of Lavender being first on the scene and you are just trying to explain why they are $300 each. I just hope we as a group can collectively iron out the terminology and trade names. This forum seems to be the largest group of people discussing Florida king morphs (If not let me know I want to join) so a lot that is decided here ripples outward to everywhere else (look at the Peanut Butter and Jelly morphs does anyone else name them different). There are three large corn snake forums and I am willing to bet quite a few corn snake breeders are members of at least two so there is lots of sharing of ideas over all three. With Florida kings this is it.

It is also my opinion that Lavender Albino just needs to be Lavender and T- Albino needs to Amelanistic. It conforms to the majority of other species labeling of morphs, it is easier for someone that is new to Florida kings to understand and it is just easier to stay

I agree 100%.

But if you look at the classifieds or check any breders table over the past 10 years the hundreds of Lavenders are marked ALBINO Brooks or AMEL Brooks. This is the same problem we have with other species like the Rosy Boa "Ghost" which is not a axanthic x hypo double homozygot. The Ghost name is also used in calif Kingsnakes as a single morph and not a double homo. So for the average Joe,.. an albino florida/brooksi is really a lavender.

Most people will never even know the difference between an ALBINO and a AMEL Florida king moph. They think it is the same thing. So I began explaining that a Lavender albino is different from a T nnegative albino.That is why the lavender is $40. and the t negative is $300. lol! Still people don't get it. They still think a T neg is almost the same and don't undertsand the price difference.

T neg (AMELANISTIC)are A lot RARER. I bought the new morphs out from a zoo keeper a few years ago and not many have been released to the public. Yet every once in a while someone will show up (and this has happened here on the forums) that thinks they have a T negative they bought online or from a pet shop. HA HA! Fat chance. That would be like buying a Pied Black Pine in a pet shop somewhere.

That is one reason i stopped producing these over the last 4-5 years. I used my T negs to produce jellies. Only T negs i have for sale came from triple het bredings in the past 5 years. This is the first year i decided to produce staright tgegs and T negs from a jelly to jelly breeding.

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www.Bluerosy.com

I can understand from a certain point of view but you will always have people that will represent their animals differently and sometimes wrongly to make a quick sale. I see anery corns sold as black albino and an amel corns as red albinos both of which are just older trade names for the morphs. We all know how stubborn some of us can be to change I mean look at how many people still use Brooksi instead of Floridana and now they expect us to change that again. I have also seen normal corns marked as okeetee that neither resemble okeetee phase nor come from anywhere near the hunt club and sometimes the vendor has no clue. That was just what they thought they were or what they were sold to them as.

No new comer is going to understand the higher end morphs right off the bat and by higher end I mean more than $50 for a hatchling. When I started keeping snakes again about a year and half to two years ago I lurked here and watched the words Peanut Butter and Jelly get thrown around and had no clue but once I figured it out it became clear. Because of my previous experience with corns, Biology classes and learning the Ultra X Amel = Ultramel in the F1 the Jelly morph was much easier to wrap my brain around.

On a related note I find it curious that Ultra is a form of Hypomelanism as is Peanut Butter and when each is combined with amelanism you get a phenotype somewhere in the middle.

I had one guy ask me recently why anyone spends $1200 on a pair of peppermint hatchlings when they just look like pink snows. To him the difference was not that it was a much prettier animal it was that he could get something similar for $40 he will never get it so I don’t try. My point is if someone is serious about the hobby or wants an Amelanistic Florida king they going to find out what they are buying and will pay what it is worth. Some one that just wants a snake is going to buy the lavender because they do not see the difference nor do they want to.

That's great news! You mentioned that you suspected that the PB gene was involved but I'll be keeping a close eye on what the end result is, if there ever is an end.

Great hearing about the other detail too!
Ryan