Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just found out that our state wildlife resources agency doesn't discriminate between subspecies AT ALL -- so I need a permit to even keep HONDURAN milk snakes legally, even though their native range is thousands of miles from here. Boooooo......

I know, I know, this is the KINGsnake forum. I called them up because I'm still thinking of buying a pair of speckled kings -- which are native in the western part of the state. It turns out that it's quite easy to get an import permit, AS LONG AS they are coming from a legal source, but you do have to have that permit. And even if I purchase "native" snakes -- like my Mexican black king, for heaven's sake -- from a legal source (I got mine from Petsmart, which already has import permits), I have to buy an additional permit in order to sell or breed the snake legally.

Doncha just love bureaucracy??
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Thank GOD Florida is so reptile friendly.....so far!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

>>Thank GOD Florida is so reptile friendly.....so far

Isn't your governor trying to ban boas and pythons for the entire nation?
And he is in bed with the humane society who's goal is to outlaw all pets.......

So far......Florida isn't looking to good on my reptile radar....... But I will visit every August......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

You sound like you are in Kentucky.

>>You sound like you are in Kentucky.

Close -- TN!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

So if the hondos were being sold by a TN vendor with the necessary permits, you wouldnt have to get the permit yourself? If you bought your mbk without needing the permit, I cant see why you would for the hondos, unless like you said, the MBKs were bought locally from a vendor that had the permit. It may be easier to find a breeder in TN. Some of these laws are just NUTZ!

In KY I can have five of each non-morphed "native" (Cal kings are considered native) species before I need a permit. If I plan to breed or sell I need a permit that is 150 a year if I just want to collect them it is 100 every three years.

>>In KY I can have five of each non-morphed "native" (Cal kings are considered native) species before I need a permit. If I plan to breed or sell I need a permit that is 150 a year if I just want to collect them it is 100 every three years.

I wouldn't mind it nearly so much if they would just distinguish between the subspecies. Wanting me to get permits on snakes with native ranges in Central America is just insane!

And you bring up another good point. I didn't ask the agent about morphs. I know some states include morphs in their restrictions (I've been looking up laws this afternoon), but some don't. I don't know what TN does about them!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>So if the hondos were being sold by a TN vendor with the necessary permits, you wouldnt have to get the permit yourself? If you bought your mbk without needing the permit, I cant see why you would for the hondos, unless like you said, the MBKs were bought locally from a vendor that had the permit. It may be easier to find a breeder in TN. Some of these laws are just NUTZ!

If you bought the snake from a permitted dealer IN THE STATE, you don't have to have a permit to keep the animal. But if you intend to sell or breed the animal later, then you have to get a permit to do that. And if you IMPORT the snake into the state, then you have to get an import permit. I imported my hondos from Maryland, so I'm supposed to have an import permit for them. The problem here is that they have to be from a LEGAL source, and you have to be able to prove where you got them -- thus you need a paper trail. This also means that I have to check out the state laws in every state that I bought snakes from, in order to make sure all the breeders/sellers were operating legally. Yuck!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Anybody who think we will be able to keep snakes much longer has to just look at this thread.

That is how the government works. One inch at a time. first the band on how many rounds a magazine can hold. Then the mdeol gun. Then they want to have each bullet with a serial number.

if anybody does not see the correlation between guns and snakes they are idiots.

Look at both the Bible and pornography which are both protected. And it is a good thing.

last time i checked this was supposed be the good ol U.S.A. But not any longer. I feel sorry for those that served and gave their lives for this country because just like all history, nothing stays the same. This place will collapse on itself soon. And it is all due to making more regulations. It is all about MORE regulation. MORE LAWS, MORE LAWS is the stinking thinking that think it will fix everything. And that is the perdicament that got us here.

Rant over. I gotta drink a beer, shoot a gun, look at my snakes and have some barbecue outside before that is all taken away.
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www.Bluerosy.com

The nice cigar for after dinner...
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Jimmy Tintle

...your '72 Chevelle w/454 you gotta take to the store for a beer run.....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I was told that the law in Tenn. states that you can have unlimited rounds in your pistol as long as you are shooting a snake while reading porn,and standing on a bible. I might have this one wrong but it would not shock me to be true!

Probably so!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>I was told that the law in Tenn. states that you can have unlimited rounds in your pistol as long as you are shooting a snake while reading porn,and standing on a bible. I might have this one wrong but it would not shock me to be true!

Nonono, ya gotta remember we've got snake handlers here, and nobody here would DREAM of standing on a Bible. Unlimited rounds in the pistol in your holster, holding a Bible in one hand and a rattler in the other -- while you walk into the local bar....
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Here in Georgia they just made it legal to carry conceacled into a bar. Before you could not carry into any place that serves alcohol.

What is is funny about Georgia ..

1)No alcohol sales allowed on sundays.
Nope you can't buy beer in the supermarket or anywhere , even if it falls on holidays like Independence Day, Memorial Day, labor day etc. Go fight in a war and come back to Georgia and can't buy a beer to celebrate our independence because it is sunday.

2)You can't keep any native reptiles except venomous. That includes cornsnakes. But you CAN legally keep all the native venemous snakes you want. I guess that is on the books for the church snake handlers and rattlesnake roundups they have in s. GA.

3)Another thing against the law is sodomy. Even between husband and wife. i think this was initiated originally for homosexuals. Yet people here have regular intercourse with their own cousins and farm animals.

4) in a town near me it is a law that if you live within the city limits you MUST SHOW PROOF that you own a handgun. Guess what. It works! No crime for those city residents!

So every state has its good and bad sides. California is one of the worst for opposing regs.

Calif:
It is impossible for a normal citizen to get a concealed carry permit to protect your life but you can get a permit to smoke and grow all the marijuana you want.

I could go on and on about kalifornia.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I was told that the law in Tenn. states that you can have unlimited rounds in your pistol as long as you are shooting a snake while reading porn,and standing on a bible. I might have this one wrong but it would not shock me to be true!

HA HA HA! That is very true and also very funny.
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www.Bluerosy.com

This law has actually been in effect in this state for many years now -- at least since the 80s, I think, if not before that. It isn't anything new. I just never realized before today that they ignore subspecies differences in this state.

I'm all for protecting our native snakes. But they need to use a little intelligence too!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Thankfully LA does classify natives on the subspecies level. So, I can breed and sell other getula species except holbrooki without a permit of any type. To breed and sell natives, I am required to have a permit, which is $105 per year. The native list DOES NOT consider morphs as non natives. A corn is a corn regardless of morph in the eyes of LA. Some states are (rightfully so IMO) lenient with the morph issue.

>>Thankfully LA does classify natives on the subspecies level. So, I can breed and sell other getula species except holbrooki without a permit of any type. To breed and sell natives, I am required to have a permit, which is $105 per year. The native list DOES NOT consider morphs as non natives. A corn is a corn regardless of morph in the eyes of LA. Some states are (rightfully so IMO) lenient with the morph issue.

Wisconsin is one of those states in regards to most species...
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
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Cindy, Wisconsin's consideration of morphs as non-native, or non-regulated just makes sense IMO. It still allows economic opportunity in the pet trade, takes pressure off the capture of native non-morph species, and is a win win in my books.

Yours are worse than mine then but at least you have a window to apply for your transport permit I have to know the date I am bringing something in and apply. A head of time and they might get it to me on time.

the more I think all us herpers ought to move to some sparsley populated state and become an important voting block. Wyoming's only got what, 1 million people? If we could get 20,000 herpers to move there and act in concert we might be able to protect ourselves.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Yeah, but that's tough to do when most of the other 980,000 despise snakes..LOL!

This will never change man.

The only thing that has changed is the fact that there are far more idiots in our growing population than many years ago..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

When I was in Wyoming in 2008 the population was 650,000........because........it's Wyoming for Petes Sake......lol

Move to Texas and we will fly our own flag again when we decide to secede.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
www.coastalbendcaptivebreeding.com

Because they've passed so many laws to protect all the fools.
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Amy Claiborne

Don't let them take your wasted time. J.T.

"Because they've passed so many laws to protect all the fools"

Yes, that is the entire problem. Idiots cause the problems, and the other idiots pass this nonsense BECAUSE of the stupidity the previous idiot's caused..LOL!

It's just one big vicious circle of stupidity, and the good responsible people are stuck holding the bag that didn't cause ANY of it. This is what has always irritated the heck out of me.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah because you know some idiot tried to blow dry their hair in the shower, otherwise why would they put a warning on the label?

...where native snakes and turtles have to be PIT tagged.

Surprise "inspections" can happen at any time.

There's annual fees for keeping and breeding native herps - and those fees have increased since first being instated.

And best of all, obvious morphs and hybrids that contain even the slightest bit of native herp are covered under the regulation as well.

A few years ago there was a raid of the All Ohio Reptile Show - people went to jail.

Tim

Here in Washington state, we are not even allowed to touch native reptiles and amphibians. Not even to move them off the road. I don't think it is very enforceable.

I have Oregon rubber boas. I wonder if I am supposed to have a permit, since they are native to Washington.
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.0 Lavender cornsnake
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
1.1 Oregon rubber boas

Tim, that SUCKS!!! I think even Georgia, who is pretty strict on their native species policies, do not consider hybrids like creamsickles as indigenous! Its funny, but some of the pet shops here in my area wouldnt sell speckled kings because they were natives, but still sold corn morphs LOL!! They never realized these were still classified as native, regardless of the morph. Some of the smarter shops only sold animals with distinct non-native common names like Cal kings, Honduran milks, Mex. Black Kings, etc. Our permit to sell native species is not overly zealous or expensive IMO, so I live with it to breed my corns.

Tim --

I've just read over the Ohio regs, because I'm waiting for two hondos to be shipped to me from your state. It appears that Ohio regs DO recognize subspecies differences -- so selling hondurensis wouldn't require licensing in Ohio. Do I understand that correctly?
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters