Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please excuse my lengthy post........

my beardie is about 2 1/2 yrs old and about 18". I noticed that he stopped eating, took him to the vet and was given meds for him. i was told by the vet that he had parasites and impaction. One med was a powder for him to soak in (ronidazole) and the other was a med to treat the parasites (metronidazole). I also was feeding him 2X a day Oxbow critical care. He has put back on a little weight and has been deficating a lot more regularly. I stopped feeding him the mix and tried some live food, but he is acting very lazy. He only ate 2 super meal worms and only because they came in from of his face while he was lying down (his usual deal). today i tried some crickets, he tried to get one that came in front of his face, but after he failed he just laid back down and they crawed all over him. I ended up removing the crickets. He has not eaten as a normal beardie for about 1 month 1/2.

I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem. This is really bothering me and I want to see him better. His temps are roughly 105 in the warm side and 90 in the cool side. he gets misted daily and soaks (in warm water) about 3X a week. I have removed the calcium sand substrate and he have a 10.0 reptisun light strip.

Thank you for any assistance and sorry again for the lengthy post.

Shawn

Do you have a weight scale? They can be purchased at Walmart, ect. very inexpensively. This would be very helpful in determining if your dragon is improving. the scale needs to measure in 1 gram increments and have a capacity of 1000 grams or 1 KG.

I'm a little concerned about your temperatures. How are you measuring the 105? Is that a basking spot (surface) temperature or an ambient (air) temperature? I also think 90 is too high for a cool side temp. The cool side should be in the 75-80 range.

You should consider purchasing a probiotic. It is a good idea to use it after an oral parasite treatment. I have never used Flagyl before so I cannot comment on whether it depresses appetite or not. The probiotic I recommend is Acidopliliz by Pet Authority. It can be purchased here:

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Meds.html

How much did he weigh when he was at the vets?

The temps are measured with a temp gun. We recently moved to Arizona (8 months ago) and there is no humidity in the air so I try to mist him daily as well as soak him every other day.

We have a food scale that we have been using to measure his weight, it is not digital, but we have noticed that his weight has gone up, I believe that the vet scaled him around 520 grams. We saw an increase of around 10 - 15 grams (cant be accurate since it is a analog food scale) since feeding him the Oxbow.

It has been 4 days since I have used the Oxbow critical care food. Would you suggest that I restart feeding him that, or should I continue attempting to feed him as I normally would (mealwors or crickets with greens or fruits)?

I will look into the probiotic. Thanks again for all of the assistnace! It is truly appreciated!

Shawn

Wow,it's good that you gave his weight...we were all probably wondering about it. At 18" he is VERY chunky if he weighs over 500 grams, I personally consider that to be over-weight. I don't think he needs any special feeding for the sake of his well-being....remember, they brumate for MONTHS with no food, and he may just be wanting a break from his food. just keep soaking him and lower the temps. and try to get him to have a bowel movement. Sometimes some vegetable oil will { grease " it through. How long ago was he on calcium sand ? That can definitely cause impaction so I just wonder if that is the connection.

He was on calci sand for most of his life (2 1/2 hrs i believe), until now when I switched to the liner. The vet, informed me that he did have impaction and a parasite infection (hexamite i believe was the name). I was informed that the parasite type was a very bad kind. I am staying on top of his husbandry and monitoring him when I am home.

He has been deficating A LOT lately, and large chunks too. He probably goes 4 - 5 times a week which i was told by the vet was good to try to rid the parasites and is due to the fiber in the Oxbow ctitical care food.

I was thinking about the brumation being the reason why, but with all the problems that he currently has, I want to make sure that he stays healthy and is feeding.

Thanks again for all the help! I have received more feedback from here than I from the Boa page, which is my main hobby.

Shawn

I've used the critical care myself also. It's a good product. The problem with syringe feeding is knowing when to stop. The dragons get used to being fed this way and then don't show a lot of interest in other food. It's also a guess as to what the proper dosage is.

530-535 is a good weight for an 18" dragon. At this point my recommendation would be to stop syringe feeding altogether and just monitor his weight and eating habits. I would definately get the probiotic to cover that base though.

The most active season for adult dragons is spring. It is now late summer and they are aware of the shortening days. A couple of mine have already started their brumation. This is something you should consider, the slowdown could be seasonally related.

My suggestion is to offer live food every other day and salad on the opposite day. I would monitor his weight and record it at least once a week. If he doesn't eat much but maintains his weight he's probably fine. Just remember a good size bowel movement weighs in the 20-25 gram range.

Awsome advise! I will keep the monitoring up and offer food as you stated in your post!

Thanks again!

As always, it is greatly appreciated!

Shawn

Dragons don't need alot of humidity...40-60% humidity inside their cage is fine. It shouldn't be over 60% very often either. Too much humidity can cause scale issues and even respiratory infections. To help with hydration, feeding misted or recently washed greens (which are still rather wet) and high water containing bugs (ie silkworms and hornworms) will keep him well hydrated.

As he was recently treated for worms, I would try to make sure he doesn't go into brumation. Try the probiotic, even the human made probiotic can be used if you can't find the one recommended by BDLvr (acilyphis....bah, can never remember the spelling). The human version can be found at any drug store, typically used for kids. Just adjust the dosage appropriately for the weight of your dragon.

Picking up a good digital scale would be beneficial too, as it will give you a more accurate reading on your dragons weight. However, right now his weight sounds good for a dragon his size. (have any recent pictures of him to share?). I would weigh him after he has a bowel movement, once or twice a week, and record it. This will make it easier to know his current weight.

As he seems used to being syringed fed, try hand feeding him some greens and worms, so he does eat regularly.

Have you taken a fresh stool sample in to the vet after the round of treatment was over to make sure those parasites were cleared out?
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PHLdyPayne

Great advise on the humidity. I usually soak him of ronly a few minutes, which he used to enjoy bunches not too long ago. We clean and refill his water dish daily but we never actually seen him drink from it, he usually drinks when we spray water over his head, however, since along with not eating on his own he has also not been drinking the sprayed water. For this reason, I have been making sure to soak him every other day.

I will purchase the probiotic "Acidopliliz" from the website that BDIvr recommended this evening. I hope that this will do the trick.

As for his enclosure, we will def have to upgrade him. I always thought that it looked a little too tight in there.

The vet took a stool sample on our first visit. He did not do so on the second visit. He told us that he seemed to be doing a little better and just gave us the powder (oxbow) food for him. If the probiotic does not help, I will make a follow up with the vet.

Also, it seems like he is defecating more than every other day. More like 5 days out of the week, and in large chunks too! I will weigh him, and reweigh after his next drop as recommended.

He was originally purchased for my wife but it seems that i have taken the role of caretaker since she has her new puppy now, so it looks like I have my work cut out for me now.

Hope fully after the probitics, he will be back to norm. Dont have a pic of him, at least not a recent one, so I will have to remember to snap one and post it.

Thanks again for all of the insight and advise on beardie care!

Shawn

If he has been impacted for a long time, he could have alot of fecal matter backed up...so it is good he is getting it out now. I would still bring a sample in to the vet to check and see if the treatment cleared out the parasites. I am surprised the vet didn't request a follow up fecal automatically.
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PHLdyPayne

Have you been offering any greens? You only mentioned crickets and superworms which he doesn't seem to have interest in right now.

How are you measuring your temperatures? (ie temp gun, digital thermometer with probe on the basking spot? Strip or dial shaped stuck on side of the cage?). Also what size of a cage is he in? What are you using for a substrate now?

I second the use of the probiotic, it can definitely help kick start his appetite by helping beneficial bacteria and other gut flora make a come back from the parasite treatment. From what I remember about Flagyl it does suppress the appetite and can dehydrate a dragon, so make sure he's getting plenty of fluids. Using an eye dropper to drip water on the corner of the mouth often gets a dragon to lick it up from the dropper.
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PHLdyPayne

Thank you for your response,

I use a temp gun to measure the temps. He is in a 30 long tank. I am using the terrerium liner from Zilla. I have heard mixed reviews on this but I think its better than the calcium sand that i was using before.

I will look into getting the probiotic. Thanks for the info and the tips! It is truly appreciated.

As suggested on the other replies, i will lower the temps to lessen the stress. I hope that he makes a full recovery soon, we miss his normal self.

Thanks again.

Shawn

Not sure what the Zilla liner is...but as long as it can't be ingested in any way, and is easily cleaned, it will be fine.

I also want to point out a 30 gallon long tank is way too small for an adult dragon. It also explains why your cool side temp is so high. I suggest you build or buy a cage that is at last 4'x2' in floor space. Height can be between 18-24" and I find solid tops work best, gives you a place to mount UVB tubes and heat lamps inside the cage. Just keep the top of the basking spot no more than 8" from the basking lamp (to ensure dragons don't try to jump at it...most won't but there is always the odd one out there).

With a bigger cage, it will be easier to maintain a good temperature gradient and give room for your dragon to move around. A cage that is too small, coupled with furniture, doesn't give a dragon much moving space. Lack of space could be stressing your dragon too.

I keep my 19" female in a 5'x2'x2' cage and she's very active in it.
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PHLdyPayne

I have not so good news, i was off greatly by his weight, he is not in the 520s as i erroneously stated earlier, he is acutally in the 320s. I mixed the 3 with a 5. I tried to had feed him some fruit not to long ago (actually force feed since he does not open his mouth on his own) and he defecated. I dont know if that is ok, that he is defacating this much. He also has only eaten 2 super mealworms in the last 6 days, i am getting worried.

I will order the probiotic now, right after i send this post.

Your thoughts would be very much apprecaited on this happening.

Thanks!

Shawn

Trying to forcefeed is stressful, probably why he defecated while you were trying to do it. But with a fresh stool sample, would be a good time to take it to your vet for a fecal.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for the advise.

I do foresee this (vet visit) happening soon. I really want him back to normal.

The pribiotics was shipped out today. Hopefully its a fast delivery.

Have a great weekend.

Shawn

A weight of 320 is a bit low, so yes he needs to get it back up. It's not critical though [ 400 grams would be fine, 500 is overweight...they do not require a huge belly as you see on many websites,they develop in captivity because of over-feeding and no exercise ] Again, at this stage give him whatever food he prefers... I don't remember if you have Dubias, but many dragons go crazy for them as well as horn worms. Not wild caught ones, as these are toxic.

Oh, since he does need to put back on some weight, keep up the Oxbow critical care...you said before that he gained a little on it. If he has any interest in crickets but he just lets them pass by without much effort to get them, you might try smashing one in your fingers so that the guts come out the back end and rub this lightly on his mouth. I know it sounds horrible but very often this will trigger a feeding response....do the same with a superworm. It may or may not work, but it's worth a try.

Thanks for the tips, I have no problem trying the smashing technique.

With all foods, we have had to force feed, including the oxbow.

He just doesnt take the food as he did in the past. Before all we had to do was rub the insect on the side of his mouth and he would open up.

Ill test my luck tonight.

Thanks again.

Shawn

Sticking some live crickets into a small container then put it into the fridge for 5-10 minutes will work too. This turns the crickets into a dormant state...and you can drop them one by one infront of your dragon. He will have a few minutes to eat it before the heat of the cage 'wakes up' the cricket enough for it to scurry off.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for the tip! I will plan to purchase some crickets tomorrow and give that a try. I do have some good news though, I dropped (one by one) 6 mealworms and he ate all of them! He gave a slight chase on the 2nd and 3rd worms and seemed to be active, more like his old self.

I also placed a small greens and fruit salad, but i dont think that he ate anything from that so i removed it, probably stuffed from the worms.

I hope that he will keep up the this positive attitude and continue to improve.

Thank you and all others for your assitance and advise.

Shawn

I would have just left the greens in his cage all day. Give it a heavy mist of water, to keep them fresh longer. He may have been full from the mealworms, but he could have been hungry later.
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PHLdyPayne

I agree that if the " cool side" is being accurately measured at 90 degrees, that is too hot and could lead to dehydration,lack of appetite and probably inability to have regular bowel movement.Too cool temps. will be harmful as well. Be sure to soak him regularly but supervised for 5 or so minutes in lukewarm so he can drink [ 1-2 inches of water] And like was mentioned, greens are SO important for a dragon to maintain good health. Hope you can get it back on it's feet.

Thanks for all of the tips!!

I will be sure to give him his greens (even though he rarely eats them). We still offer it to him though.

And I will lower his temps.

Thanks again!

Shawn

Well it's great that he is going to the bathroom, your first post mentioned impaction so the fact that he is going is good news. The temp on your basking area was fine, just the cool side should be at least 10 degrees cooler. It sounds like he will be fine. Keep giving the greens...collard, turnip, mustard, dandelion. I even use mulberry leaves from my tree and my dragons, from baby to adult love them. Sometimes if you with hold the bugs for a while [ as long as your dragon is of good weight] they will go for the greens. OR..try putting the favored bug, slightly disabled so as to be "easy" prey, on top of the greens the beardie will get some greens when he grabs the bug.

Awsome tips! I love this forum!

Thanks again and thanks again!!!

Shawn