Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone familiar with the stuff Mark Lucas sells? (and this is not intended to start any trash talking and if it does, it's on you, not me! LOL!!!) But first, I will preface what I am about to say with the fact that I bought some snakes from Mark several months ago and was extremely pleased with his professionalism and service. My snakes arrived healthy and looked really, really good. Absolutely NO complaints whatever. Additionally, I still check to see what he has from time to time and WOULD buy from him again, based on my personal, prior contact with him.

Now, all that to say, the reason I ask is because I purchased several floridas from him (a 25 lot), sifted through them, sold most, and held the rest back for my collection. There were a few anery's, some hi-reds and yellows, and some "brookish" looking ones. My question is a "background" related one - does any one know where these may have originally come from or who produced them, and if there's a chance of some recessive stuff going on with them that I don't know about? To be perfectly honest, I don't even know if these guys are all related or not. I'm guessing some of them are...but who knows? hahaha!

I've attached a couple pics, one of an anery female, and one of a brooks female. I bought them back in March of this year.

Any and all input is welcome!

BTW...And I say this with the utmost respect to you all (LOL!) But Please do not say "Why don't you go ask Mark!" (or any variation of such)...I bought these snakes 5-6 months ago, and at the time, I got the impression he hadn't produced them himself, so he might not even know himself (and that didn't matter to me at the time). I didn't have these questions till now, and I think it would be unreasonable to come back 6 months later and start quizing him on a six month old sale. Am I right?

I am sure Mark receives wholesale lots for his business from many breeders, or at least a select group of breeders quite often. Maybe some of the forum posters will know and respond. As far as asking Mark, I dont think that is unreasonable at all. Just tell him your are curious and certainly understand if he doesnt remember. He may have a VERY select group of folks he buys from consistently and does remember exactly who provided him the group he sent you easily. Now, if more than one breeder provided the babies, he may not know exactly which snake goes to which breeder, but he could probably give you the list of breeders he got the entire lot from.

Ok, cool. Thanks for the speedy response,- really appreciate it.

>>Please do not say "Why don't you go ask Mark!" (or any variation of such)...I bought these snakes 5-6 months ago, and at the time, I got the impression he hadn't produced them himself, so he might not even know himself (and that didn't matter to me at the time). I didn't have these questions till now, and I think it would be unreasonable to come back 6 months later and start quizing him on a six month old sale. Am I right?

It's not unreasonable at all. In fact, just a few weeks ago I myself contacted a seller I had purchased from in December, in order to ask him for more info about one of the snakes I had purchased. Mark may or may not know the answers to your questions, but he's still the best place to start!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I'm pretty sure he works for Strictly Reptiles and runs his own business selling Strictly's stuff online for a markup.

No one here is going to know more about the stuff he sells than he does.

"No one here is going to know more about the stuff he sells than he does"

I would definitely agree with that!

But with the plethora of phenotypes in a 25 lot, guaranteeing the genetics in every snake is probably quite impossible, but I would DEFINITELY ask nonetheless just in case. Then when Mark goes...."who the heck knows", you know you at least asked him about it..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thank you to those of you who responded. Really appreciate the feedback.

Micah

I quess you were hoping some of the getula folks would respond that they know the babies you are referring to because they sold to Mark. That may still happen. However, as one poster stated, Mark may be just brokering for Strictly, and that may be as far back as he can provide you information on who supplied your animals. Sometimes you just have to go with what you have and leave it at that. If you have solid visual morphs, so much the better. However, tons of multihet animals get sold off wholesale as normals, amels, etc. without any information on what is actually hiding in the DNA LOL!! The snakes are just sold to the wholesaler labled as to what they are visually. Most of the stuff is non-holdback project offspring, etc. You may have a "Christmas Morning" moment when you start hatching clutches out of the group LOL!!

Good luck and I hope you find the info you are looking for.

Yeah, that was kind of what I was hoping would happen. I was well aware Mark brokered many of his animals (I worked with a breeder who had a small retail shop in north central CA, back in the early to mid 90's, and we purchased from Mark more than once, way back then). He (Mark) didn't suggest that they were anything special, but I figured he probably picked them up from some breeder, who just might happen to pass through this forum and have a little more to say about them.

Truth of the matter is I really don't care - it doesn't matter, they're good looking snakes regardless and I'm gonna hang on to them.

But thanks for the comment, Kevin.

The first pic is an Anery and the second a normal. the normal loooks like it is het for something like lavender , anery or both.Just my experince talking. It does not look like it came from hypo, WS or axanthic genes.

On any of the hets you will probably have the older traits in them:

Anery
axanthic
hypo
Lavender albino
Whiteided

the newer traits are:

peanut butter
jelly
T neg
Mosiac

The best thing you can do when breeding time comes is match up any of the normals that look similar to each other. phenotypes from reccessive traits are like markers. Thing is most don;'t have the experince to make an educated guess. So you best bet is to match the ones that look most similar or like they could be siblings. this way you can more easily prove out a lavender and anery phenotype which does not look like hypo, WS and axanthic phenotype. If you don't try that then you will never find out if one is het for , lets say, hypo and another het lavender because they won't match up.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Thanks Rainer. As a matter of fact, I have a 2.2 of those identical looking anery's, a 1.2 of the brooks looking ones, and about a 1 or 2.3 totally normal (but with nice reds and yellows). That's what I needed...I'll pair them up with as close a match as possible and see what happens.

THANKS!!!

The problem here is that this is the very reason those animals were so sheap. Not trying to sound rude, but If he knew for certain they were het for something then they might be worth more. He buys in bulk and sells in bulk. I wanted to get some Chain Kings a while back because the pic he posted was a great looking snake but after corresponding with him he said the ones he had were not like those in the pic and he could not give individual pics(which is understandable). So I decided to wait and get some animals that I could get more detailed info from, even if it would cost more. I have heard lots of good reports from people who have dealt with him but you get what you pay for.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah I'm sure you're probably right. I saw a familiar name on KS classiifieds(around february of this year), after about a 15 year hiatus from the market, and didnt really know too many other sources, so I went through him and got a good deal. I was, and STILL AM, happy with what I got, even if there's nothing special about them. You're right though, "They are what they are!" - badass normal "run of the mill" florida kings! HAHAHA!!! Florida's rock no matter what!!!

Thanks for the response!

BTW
I've met a lot of really good people since, in the last few months, and am glad "to be back".

I love my anery girl from Mark. I gotta get better pics of her (and lose weight myself).

Nice snake u got there, very nice...........she's beautiful. Didn't I just say that? Florida kings rock!!! LOL!

I will say you look like you got an awesome deal. The ones you posted were very good looking animals, and I bet you do get some morphs from them.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

Yeah, I think I got a pretty smokin deal too, and thank you for saying so. It was the first significant reptile purchase I had made since a single female (kahl) albino colombian boa, and then later still, a 2.2 alb whitewater rosy boa purchase a couple of years ago. The last time I priced an alb colombian redtail (1995) they were basically "untouchable"-20+k I think. So I jumped on this female for $300. Then, in march, I bought these floridas. I held some back, and then made my original purchase price back by selling the rest and came out of it with a decent little group of some pretty kings for free. No complaints here. LOL! Gotta love florida's!

Don't get mad but I'm gonna show u a couple pics of my BOAs! LOL!

I remember seeing amel Colombian's in 1996 for $10,000 bucks.

Still very "un-touchable" regardless..LOL!

I still have a big 7 plus foot possible het male from back then too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

We all start out somewhere. Alot of us might not have much $$, and getting a whole clutch and reselling is something most of us have done. But records are why you buy from a BREEDER not a wholesaler. He might be able to help you, but now you have started your collection with questionable lineage animals. Its hard enough to move baby kings when they are feeding with perfect records. Coming into the forum as you have has already raised a flag for those of us who have been around a while, as you now understand the value of that info.
The average keeper is usually around 3-4 years, even bigger breeders get burned out or have a change of life at some point. Good records and better housing will usually keep your interest in the hobby longer and make you more successful. Some line breedings take a LONG time, I am working with a F5 line! Good luck!

What you say may be true, (about the record keeping and such), but the kings I mentioned, that I first purchased, and then resold, were to a few local pet stores here in northern cali and a few private parties looking for a "pet snake" - not a "genetic goldmine". There was no "genetic preference" on the part of the buyer, nor did I suggest anything. They were sold as "baby florida kings", and nothing more. So I'm not really sure what "flags" you were referring to. Regardless however, these kings, whose lineage will forever be a mystery, ARE NOT, the founding fathers of the snakes I produce --- let me make that clear! LOL! My apologies if I read too much in to that the wrong way though.

As far as why I went on a hiatus, it had nothing to do with husbandry or record keeping. I've maintained a collection of reptiles for over 20 years now...I simply stopped breeding them around 1995-6 due to a very demanding day job. Ironically u talk about getting burned out, haha! My day job is what's got me burned out. Reptiles are what keep me sane! LOL!

For what it's worth, I did fork out a small chunk of change on some really nice hi-end floridas, and some hogs. And these even came with records at no extra cost! LOL!

Thanks for the dialog its been fun!

BTW.....what flag?