Reptile & Amphibian Forums

should we just keep calling sinaloan/nelson crosses "sinaloan/nelsons" or call them something more catchy like sinelsons or nelsinaloans?

Well, there are FAR more than enough "catchy" labels out there on tables. All this does for me is make my head shake and for my eyes to roll. Just simply call them what they are,...intergrades!

Do most people know the difference, or what good examples of each even look like,....no, and do most care,...no, that is how they got intergraded in the first place..LOL!

Most(but not necessarily all) in the hobby of either one are combinations of both anyway with few exceptions.

I never bother to even look at most labels first, I look at what's in the deli cup, then see if the label matches what I see inside it.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

well doug, while i thank you for your input, i'm sure that anyone who regularly visits this forum already knew what your opinion was on this topic before ever clicking on your reply.

sinaloans were originally what got me into tri-colored lampro back in the mid-90's. sadly, i've only recently gotten back into keeping and breeding again after shedding 125 lbs of nagging, hobby hating she-flesh - and have found that what i kept a decade ago isn't readily available anymore. a local breeder told me that people just 'got bored' with the $35 normal sinaloans and to compensate for this he had to start mixing other morphs into his breeding groups to keep his sales up (mostly seib vp, splotched, and albino in his case).

this has, arguably, turned sinaloans into the corn snake of the triangulum hobby. and while i now have several individuals in my collection that are at least phenotypic of what i remember breeding (this was not as easy a task to come by as i had originally hoped) i also have bought some of the designer morphs which are clearly not all sinaloae.

i've been using the 'sinaloan/nelson' moniker for these in my notes but honestly was wondering what i should call any the offspring after my eggs all hatch.

i'm partial to sinelsons, but understand aversions to such labeling.

still, in my opinion, as far as 'inter-grades' go sinaloan/nelsons are far more of a closely related subspecies than much of what got mixed into the group currently known as the honduran devil snakes.

LOL at the she-flesh comment!!!! I laugh because my collection expanded considerably when a similar thing happened to me way back when LOL!!

I was actually under the opinion that one or the other subspecies designations collapsed and taxonomically sinaloans and nelsons were considered the "same subspecies"?? Someone more informed please correct me if I am wrong. I think that may have led breeders to the conclusion of "integrading" these animals. If you have Male A and Female B, and both are now considered the same, why not?? I would bet dollars to donuts that this "integrading" also happened in plastic tubs with the mexicana complex a lot when it was taxonomically determined L.m.thayeri and L.m.greeri were one in the same as L.m.mexicana. Still, this reasoning or integrading does nothing to preserve the locality aspect of the animals. When I look at the photos posted of the locality sinaloans, well they just look sinaloan to me LOL!! I think its the broader red bands and thinner black bands as opposed to nelsoni in general that gives me the impression.

Ahh, my brain hurts with this stuff sometimes!!!!

There are some people in the hobby that are working with pure examples of sinaloae and nelsoni but you have to look long and hard and most of what you see out there is a mixture. Here are some locality sinaloans that I am working with.

Dave

DNS Reptiles

Thank you Dave for caring enough to keep Sinaloans what the name implies, and not crossing or making crosses with them.

It is much appreciated!! My oldest snake in my collection is my sinaloan, and he is now 16 years old. Nice to see that when I look into his cage, the thought of worrying if he is really a sinaloan truly or not, never has to cross my mind.
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Genesis 1:1

Dave, do you think we are seeing more demographic variation as opposed to subspeciation with these animals?? Please see my above post.

That third snake is a real beauty, almost enough to have me make a hasty decision for sinaloans being my third and last snake species I want to have... but I do love the looks of really clean white sided black rat snakes... took me 5 years to decide on my second species so there's time...

Gerry

wow, that sinaloan milk is a beauty! - i really like locality snakes instead of all those garrishly weirded out psychedellic looking mutants.

It seems like whenever i try to find any cool milks around they only have the the electric candycane variety

Yeah, I agree, Dave's Cosala animals are true "classics" that need no manipulation to be stunning.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

i take back what i said about the weirdly garrish psychedellic looking mutants - i just saw a pic of albino ruthveni and now totally lust after having one of those, lol