Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have read many post about how to price MY Ball Pythons. I was talking with a friend last night and we where laughing on how pricing is anything but linear on the WEB. I guess we both decided that a BP is sold for what ever the guy or girl that owns it wants to sell it for. We also think some people post snakes on the web and over price it just so they can say....Look what I got. And if you want it Bend Over. Anyway, when I was buying BPs back in late 2007 it seemed to me that most of the BPs out there for sale where really uniformly priced. But, on that note they where uniformly priced EXPENSIVE. Now I see the same morphs varying all over the place. It can't be easy for a newbie or even a non newbie to decide on what to buy when they see pricing so non standard. No two breeders have the same pricing anymore. Is there a formula that anyone uses or knows about on how to price BPs. Going to the sites and seeing what people are selling them for is just not good enough anymore. There is really no way to do that unless you just want the low and highs and that is no way to price a BP. But it is obvious to me that is why BPs are getting so much cheaper every day. The new breeder sees what they are selling for and than list their new clutch for 25.00 less than the latest add.

Regards,
Bill Rubin
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2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.0 Honeybee
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids (9) and (16)
0.1 Spouse (22 Years Married)
1.0 Chocolate Lab

I always go to "classifieds" and take an average of about 5-6 ads and adjust accordingly!

Ultimately they are worth whatever the seller is willing to part with them for and what the buyer is willing to spend. I've only produced one female chocolate this year so she is worth more than the going price to me as a keeper. Now if I hatch other females I like better in my remaining clutches I would be willing to sell her for less. Your triple het male is an extra for you so you are willing to sell him at a price that tempts me because he could replace three males here.

IMHO the lower prices are in no small part due to the huge number of alternatives. A new morph may be very nice and still rare enough to be expensive but they have to compete with well established very nice morphs that are already plentiful. In the early 90's there where no inexpensive ball morphs to compete with. Basically we victims of our own success at producing large quantities and huge varieties of really nice ball python morphs. High prices spurred the hard work and creativity needed for great production. If they had all started out at the current prices there would be a lot fewer ball python morphs to go around now as people wouldn’t have worked so hard to produce them.

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Best regards,
Alan Cole

Bill,

I guess I look at pricing a little different than most. When I buy snakes, price is of little importance, what is important to me is that I am getting the highest quality snake I can find. If I want to purchase a particular morph, I take my time and narrow down my search to those breeders that produce the highest quality representation of the animal. If I find what I'm looking for, price is never an issue. In reality, I'm looking to purchase hold backs. I have no problem paying over market prices for top quality animals.

Like I tell new breeders, when selling snakes, what seperates your ball pythons from the tens of thousands of other ball pythons being sold. If your focus is on buying the least expensive animal you can find then possibly you'll end up with low quality animals in your collection. I know there are acceptions and sometimes you can purchase high quality animals for very low prices, but as a rule, you get what you pay for. If you have low quality animals you're going to produce low quality animals, and you may have problems moving them. If your focus is on quality and not on price then you will eventually build a group of animals that your customers will want in their collections, isn't that what this is all about?

Sorry for being so long winded.
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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

.... a lot of factors are involved! Quality is always of most importance! I also see higher prices for rare morphs and rare combos! If it's hard to find and or hard to make than it will always have a higher price.

Quality is always the largest factor!

Again well said Brian! Best wishes to you this season!
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Best regards,
Alan Cole

i wish more people had the same mentality.....

Pitoon

>>Bill,
>>
>>I guess I look at pricing a little different than most. When I buy snakes, price is of little importance, what is important to me is that I am getting the highest quality snake I can find. If I want to purchase a particular morph, I take my time and narrow down my search to those breeders that produce the highest quality representation of the animal. If I find what I'm looking for, price is never an issue. In reality, I'm looking to purchase hold backs. I have no problem paying over market prices for top quality animals.
>>
>>Like I tell new breeders, when selling snakes, what seperates your ball pythons from the tens of thousands of other ball pythons being sold. If your focus is on buying the least expensive animal you can find then possibly you'll end up with low quality animals in your collection. I know there are acceptions and sometimes you can purchase high quality animals for very low prices, but as a rule, you get what you pay for. If you have low quality animals you're going to produce low quality animals, and you may have problems moving them. If your focus is on quality and not on price then you will eventually build a group of animals that your customers will want in their collections, isn't that what this is all about?
>>
>>Sorry for being so long winded.
>>-----
>>Brian Gundy
>>
>>www.for-goodness-snakes.com
>>
>>
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Homepage
My BLOG
2010 European Shows

I totally see how the pricing can get lower. I can also see why someone would price there snakes on the Higher Side. I am just trying to figure out something more linear for myself.

Example:

I have a honeybee male that I paid for 1500.00 this summer. I also have a female pastel het hypo that I bought last year for 650.00. I have 2150.00 invested into this pairing. The honey bee will breed for many years and many different pairings....Lets say I get a six egg clutch. Not a 100% sure of the odds, but what if I got 1 normal het for OG, 2 orange ghost, a honey bee, a spider het OG, and a humblebee. I would obviously hold back 1 of the BPs but I would love to be able to price the animals according to the investment.

That seemed to be the way it worked 10 years ago....Why is that differing today. It seems like the clutches are being sold at way higher prices than what was invested. I hope all this makes sense. If you look at the Albinos right now they seem very linear per investment. But other combos seem to have no rhymes or reasons for their at least for me an outlandish pricing structure.

Regards,
Bill Rubin
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2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
1.0 Honeybee
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied
1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
1.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
1.0 Pied 50 percent White
0.1 Clown
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids (9) and (16)
0.1 Spouse (22 Years Married)
1.0 Chocolate Lab

it's quite simple.....

if a breeder has an animal that is still quite rare or is in high demand....then that breeder can list any price he/she wants.....it doesn't mean it will sell for that price though. as more of these same animals are available, the price drops as there's more selection to be bought from as everyone is trying to sell their animals.

one thing people fail to understand is that EVERYTHING is negotiable....there is no set price in anything....anything! when you buy a car do you pay the price that's on the piece of paper in the window? when you buy a house do you pay the asking price? no.....of course not! there's a margin where the seller has a minimum that they can sell for a set profit and cover their costs, anything else above that minimum amount is just profit....and it comes down to how much profit a person wants to make. there are those that are willing to accept a $5 profit while there are those "WANTING" $100 profit.

just because you see a price doesn't mean if you want that item you "HAVE" to pay that price listed.....remember that.

and also to create some of these triple and quad morphs....it takes time and not meaning months but years to produce some of these animals. people only seem to think about what the snake costs. but there's always the backdoor that few seem to realize.....hidden costs.....like electric, water, supplies, feeder animals (food for feeder animals, bedding, equipment), as well as your time to manage all of that.....and my time is not free.

if i were to really add up all the money spent in my "HOBBY" i would be in the negative......way in the negative. to make profit you need to sell...and sell a lot. selling one snake here and there is nothing....it's just money rolling back into the "HOBBY" to cover expenses because that's what "most" people do with it.

think about it.....

Pitoon

>>I totally see how the pricing can get lower. I can also see why someone would price there snakes on the Higher Side. I am just trying to figure out something more linear for myself.
>>
>>Example:
>>
>>I have a honeybee male that I paid for 1500.00 this summer. I also have a female pastel het hypo that I bought last year for 650.00. I have 2150.00 invested into this pairing. The honey bee will breed for many years and many different pairings....Lets say I get a six egg clutch. Not a 100% sure of the odds, but what if I got 1 normal het for OG, 2 orange ghost, a honey bee, a spider het OG, and a humblebee. I would obviously hold back 1 of the BPs but I would love to be able to price the animals according to the investment.
>>
>>That seemed to be the way it worked 10 years ago....Why is that differing today. It seems like the clutches are being sold at way higher prices than what was invested. I hope all this makes sense. If you look at the Albinos right now they seem very linear per investment. But other combos seem to have no rhymes or reasons for their at least for me an outlandish pricing structure.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bill Rubin
>>-----
>>2.1 Tripple Het Caramel, Orange Ghost, Genetic Stripe
>>1.0 Honeybee
>>1.1 Het Lavenders
>>1.1 Het Caramel Albino
>>0.1 Het Albino
>>0.1 Spider Het Albino
>>0.1 Het Pied
>>1,1 Pastel Het for Orange Ghost
>>1.0 Albino
>>0.1 Spinner
>>1.1 Super Pastel
>>0.1 Jungle Pastel
>>1.0 Pied 50 percent White
>>0.1 Clown
>>0.3 Normal
>>1.1 Kids (9) and (16)
>>0.1 Spouse (22 Years Married)
>>1.0 Chocolate Lab
-----
Homepage
My BLOG
2010 European Shows

Very well said. My problem is that there is no bottom end. Example; I have several Pastels that I hatched out this year. I have seen males going for $75 shipped, RIDICULOUS! It costs at least $35 to ship. I will not let my males go for less than $75 before shipping, just how I think. Yeah, it's a very common morph, but there are also underlying costs that go with snakes no matter what anyone may think. It's bad enough you can't give away a normal, but it is a sad day when you pay more to ship a snake than it is worth. There needs to be a minimum set. When several feedings are worth more than the snake is that's a problem. JMHO.

Eric.

75$ minus 35$ mean, you sell for 40$.

The thing here, will you be able to sell them for 75$ (before shipping) or you will need to keep them ?
If you keep them, you need to pay their food, the electricity, rack tubs etc.. for theses. Is it going to be worth it to keep them longer until you can sell them (if you ever can) ? Or you better cut back on your profit ?

I can even see that breeding some clutch would result in losing some money on some of the offspring to make money on another offspring.

If you breed a Pastel Lesser to a Pastel. You will probably hatch out some normals and pastels that are not worth as much as a pastel lesser or a super pastel lesser.
You are aiming at producing super pastel lesser cause they are worth the most. So if you make a profit of 1000$ on that particular snake, you might not care to have loss 50$ on producing the pastel or normals.

I think people need to take financial course and put the value of the snake accordingly. But it's not easy.

What's the value of a particular snake. On how long do you put it's depreciation value ? I try to use a margin of 5 years even if I know that in 10 years it's still should be worth something, but this is an "extra" in my head. I will of course consider the expense on a 10 year life at least.

The depreciation value of a male is not the same as a female too. I would consider the male to be worth 0$ in 5 years but the female be worth a 10-20% value of it's birth/purchase price.

Then you also ahve to consider the money for food, electricity etc.. etc...
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love this world, don't hate it.

I tend to price higher than I really want, then let people talk me down. That way I usually get what I wanted, and they are happy with their deal.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I do something similar. I look at all the comparable animals I can find and figure out what my price is going to be-that price is what I want. what I expect is for someone to offer me a certian percentage less for the animal. I tend to have a bottom line for each snake in my head before I list it for sale. If i tend to have what I think is a very nice example available of a particular morph, my bottom line is a little closer to the asking price than if the particular animal is comparable to everything esle available.

that being said, it can be difficult to predict the price of something if no one else has any out for sale yet that year. I think a lot of people wait for that first lemming to jump off the cliff and then price their stuff a little lower.
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www.cafepress.com/jbartolettherps