Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

My roommate has a female bearded dragon that has severely lost weight over the past 5 months or so. I have two bearded dragons of my own, so I often help him with the feeding. She'll only eat a little every couple of days or so. She has severely lost weight as a result. You can see the outline of her hip and tail bones.

Several months back (I can't remember exactly when it started), she developed a little eye infection in one eye and then it progressed to both eyes. She will open her eyes when she gets a warm bath, but keeps them shut normally. The eye appears to be secreting a gooey substance.

I suggested my roommate try giving her pureed greens, veggies (including carrots), with calcium powder, zoo-med pellets, and water through a syringe to get her healthy again and hydrate her. He did it now an then for a while, but not enough. I have pretty much taken over her care now, and last week I started feeding her the pureed food twice a day, bathing her once a day, and rinsing her eyes with a sterile saline solution 2-3x a day. So far, she still seems lethargic but she hangs in the hot spot more. Her eye seems to be getting slightly better although it's hard to tell.

I called the vet, and she said that she won't prescribe a medication without seeing her. I can't afford to pay for a visit - she's not even mine, and my roommate has already said that he can't and won't pay for it. I noticed that you can buy a lot of meds online. Does anyone know a specific antibiotic a vet would prescribe for an eye infection?

Enclosure Details
Temps: 80-85 (cool), 105-110 (basking)
Cage Size: 2'x 2'x 2'
Substrate: play sand
UVB: no bulb, she gets sunlight on window sill periodically
Diet:
mostly collards greens, plus a veggie like zucchini, carrot, peas, green beans, plus a fruit like pear or apple - sprinkled with zoo-med pellets and calcium for beardies and moistened with water.

Thank you!
Marie

Just wondering, when she is on the windowsill is the window up so that the sun goes through the screen ? Because even though sunlight goes through, uvb rays do not go through glass. And what about the wintertime ? Surely the dragon would need uvb bulb then?

That's a very good point. I didn't think of that. I know he doesn't have a bulb. I think he may have had one at some point, but I know for a fact he did not use one last winter. He's taken his beardie (Roxanne) outside a couple of times that I've seen. We have this large windowsill in the living room that gets a lot of light, and we secured a large piece of driftwood inside for both our lizards to enjoy watching things outside. We keep the window closed mainly because we run an AC. Do windows block all UVB light?

I have a UVB bulb for my lizards, so I may let Roxanne have it for a couple of hours each day until I force my roomie to get one.

The window for sure blocks out the UVB which is critical, especially for a sick beardie. It can't process the calcium without D3 from the sun or a proper bulb,even if it gets the powdered supplement. You might want to get the sand out of it's cage...it may be what has caused the eye irritation. Replace with newspaper or shelf-liner. Rinse the eyes with artificial tears. Hopefully it will start turning around....nice of you to try and help it out. Hope for the best !

Thanks for the advice! I have some old reptile carpet from my snakes that I'll disinfect and replace with the sand. When I mentioned it to my roomie, he basically said he doesn't even want her anymore. If I can get her back to health, I'm finding her a new home.

Window glass filters out 99% or more of the UVB radiation so sun coming through the glass is no better than just a normal incandescent bulb.

As your roommate sounds like a very uncaring and irresponsible pet owner, as he has no interest in providing proper care for his pet, then he should at least be willing to pay you for doing his job for him.

I really think you should take the dragon to a vet, or force your roommate to do so. Or worse comes to worse, give the dragon to a reputable rescue in the area so they can give the dragon the medical care it needs.

Oozing eyes can be a symptom of some other issue that is not currently apparent and it should not have gone so long without treatment. Saline solutions don't do much other than clear the eye of surface debris and mucus but if the issue is elsewhere, its not going to 'cure it'. I also do not recommend ordering medication online especially when you have no idea what is wrong with the dragon. A wrong treatment can be just as lethal as no treatment at all.

A vet visit isn't too expensive, though treatment and lab work may add up the price but its all part of the cost of keeping a pet. As I mentioned before if even a basic visit is beyond your means financially, give up the dragon to a rescue or find it a new home but be honest in the reptile's condition so the new owner will know what to expect. Herp vets usually have an idea where local reptile rescues are.

As it is your roommates dragon, you need to point out his lack of care of his pet is most likely against the law. Most places these days have animal neglect/cruelity laws and though more often than not the fines associated with them are pathetic, the laws are there.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

You're absolutely right. It is abuse, and I'm mad at myself for not taking things over sooner. I can't tell you how angry I am with my roommate over this.

I'm making an appointment with the vet although I am skeptical. I bring all my dogs to the vet, dentist, etc. religiously; however, in my experience (although quite limited), so-called reptile vets do not always know what they're doing. Several years ago I had a ball python - my first snake - that got sick. I brought him to the Angel Memorial Animal Hospital in Boston because it has a large exotics dept. After all kinds of blood work and injections, I took him home with a dozen more injections and he died the next day. It cost about $250 and the vet still had no idea what was wrong with him. After I did some research, I found out that a neurological disease - Inclusion Body Disease - fit his symptoms exactly. How is it that I could easily find out what was wrong with my snake online, but a trained reptile vet had no idea? Being a medical student myself, I know that medicine - for people or animals - is not a perfect science and doctors are just humans who do not always know what they are doing. Scary but true. That being said, I am still taking Roxanne to the vet because it's the right thing to do.

I appreciate your response

Believe me I share your pain. Vet diagnosis is not good in the reptile world. I work with 3 reptile vets and get calls from them for opinions, they all have very good intentions. There still is no formal instruction and not enough animals for vets to gain the personal experience. At least hopefully you can get the eyedrops while you're there.

I've had more than a few that look like the picture you posted come in. Sadly it's 50/50 at best. If 10 days pass, you're probably on the right track. Hopefully her condition is only the result of the sight issue. If it truly is overheating, then recovery is not likely. Overheating causes neurological damage that is permanent.

For now she needs nutrition and hydration.

Unlike human doctors, veterinarian sciences is a very broad profession..due to there just being so many different kinds of pets. An exotic's vet may be more familiar with 'pocket' pets and birds, not so much snakes, lizards, amphibians and turtles...and there are many specific species within even those broad categories, that makes it very difficult for any one vet to be able to figure out what is wrong with a reptile. It is almost like a regular physician having to know all the skills of all doctor specialties (ie surgery, psychiatry, neurology, immunology etc).

IBD, is also not very easy to diagnosis unless one is looking for it specifically...from what I recall. Specific test have to be done on tissue, it doesn't show up in blood work or X-rays. I think it can only be detected by biopsies, which isn't typically a standard test. It is very possible your vet may never have encountered an animal with IBD, so didn't recognize the symptoms....however it certainly doesn't hurt to suggest to your vet to consult with more experienced herp vets like say, Dr. Mader.

In the case of this poor bearded dragon, nutritional need definitely needs to be addressed first. It needs food, like that Oxbow critical care...it probably wouldn't have the strength to tolerate most treatments, even for something simple like antibiotics. The eye infection may be a secondary infection, triggered by a malnourished animal, more than the other way around. The vet may elect to give it fluid injections and nutritional 'sluries' for it to eat, before even addressing the eyes.
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PHLdyPayne

Forum Princess

Some pictures of the lizard (Roxanne). Her eyes definitely look better than before, but she is still very skinny :{

another try..

Oh,poor thing does look extremely ill. I can tell that she feels terrible ....the black beard shows that she feels very ill and she truly is emaciated. If you can get any food and fluids in her that is critical. Don't be shocked if she doesn't make it. Keep giving her the syringe feeding as much as possible. Hope for the best.

That beardie is near death. You need to start syringe feeding her if she will not or cannot eat enough on her own. About 6cc's each morning is a good start. You should also be weighing her daily to see if she is able to process the food. For now you can try squash baby food while you locate better products. The best product to use is critical care for herbivores by Oxbow. Prepare it with 50% water and 50% Ensure Plus Vanilla. Make it a higher water content than the directions say then wait before feeding it to the dragon. The powder absorbs a lot of moisture and you want to add additional moisture until it will stay liquid.

It is available online at www.calvetsupply.com The best flavor for dragons is the Anise flavor.

You might want to consider looking for a local rescue or other person that has the time and resources to help her now. It's very difficult to offer advise without knowing what caused her condition.

As far as the eye infection I have used drops made by Butler with good results. It is Gentamicin Sulfate .3%. I don't know if you can get it online.

Thanks so much for the advice! I just bought some of that Critical Care Oxbow formula in the Anise flavor like you suggested - hopefully it will come in the mail soon. I'm going to go out today to buy the squash baby food and ensure plus vanilla. My roommate works 10 hour days in a research lab, so I'm sure I won't get much help from him - although I will be giving him a bill.

It looks like I can only get that eye medication if I have a prescription. I'm going to make lots of phone calls to see if I can get one. I think it's imperative, though, to get her to a healthy weight. She definitely has a lot more fight to her now when I try to open her mouth to feed her, so I'm taking that as a good sign. I think she's gotten some of her strength back. I'm going to keep a log of her weight and diet to see how she improves.

I hope she makes it - I'm getting pretty attached to the little thing.

Flukers makes reptile eye rinse and can be purchased at most big pet stores. Worth a shot but I think dragons vision may be permanentely impaired. The photo provided tells me that dragon was kept at high heat with no escape. Dessicated appearance and surviving off of minimal fat reserves. BDmaster is right, there may not be much time left.

Care to share the bulb type and wattage? I can help here.

Another thing that I completely forgot to mention....you said the cage is 2x2x2. That size is way too small for a proper heat gradient. Until you can get a bigger tank [ ASAP] , what KMARTIN said is probably correct...too hot. But I have also seen very ill beardies in general with the black stressed beard.

The cage really isn't the biggest problem now, but I'll keep that in mind. Roxanne has always been skiddish when held - unlike my beardies. She usually gets the black beard when she's picked up. She's also pretty small even when she was healthy, but I just thought it was because she was a different type of beardie or something.

If the problem is overheating, then I must have been something that happened a while ago - is that possible? I have been living with Roxanne and her owner for about a year now, and I've known the roommate for several years. I would prepare her food a lot because it's easy enough to prepare an extra when I have two dragons myself. I have a temp gun, and I did check it periodically when the weather would change - they always seemed right, or even too cool at times.

Her cage was made from and tv stand - it's actually not a bad set-up. There are two levels so she can get closer to the light and there are areas shaded from the light. The bulb is a 100 watt daylight. The highest temp is about 110 and the coolest is about 83ish. There is a red spot light that goes on at night (100 watt, I believe).

I've never heard that overheating can cause eye problems, but it makes sense. Could it have been an isolated incident or does this kind of damage happen over time?

Actually the possible over-heating would itself be a problem, with or without the eye problem, that could cause severe dehydration and refusal to eat along with neurological and organ problems. BUT...if the temps. are what you are reading, they are not bad...I prefer the cool side to be no more than eighty. By the way, a red night light is completely unnecessary, you should allow the cage to cool down at night...VERY important !! You don't need any heat at night unless it's colder than 65 during the winter, believe me. Mine go down to 62 in winter with no ill effects...I never use any. I also wanted to applaud you for taking an interest in this animal's welfare, you are trying to do the right thing.