Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know what this is? I see them in the classifieds but have no idea what they are. Is it some sort of hybrid animal like the bubblegum or is it a true genetic trait of some species of rat snake. Just curious

Allen

The name "cow sucker" is an old local term for Black Ratsnakes. There is indeed a genuine calico form of these in the hobby.

Not real sure about what is known as the "lemon cowsucker" though, I would think that is a man-made cross to accentuate more yellow coloration.

Last year and a couple before that, there were some guys on here that messed with those. I think F. Roberts was one of them.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Sounds like it is along the same lines as the milk snake. I guess farmers believed the snakes would drink or steal the milk at night and so poor production of milk was often blamed on the snakes. So milk snakes could be considered cow suckers too I guess, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

yeah, the milksnake wives-tale would definitely be the more well-known one, but I'm sure if there wasn't a milksnake for the farmer to blame his bad milk production on, a Black Rat would do just fine..LMAO!!

I remember some of the funny illustrations of snakes doing this in some old snake books..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

In 1990 a young boy and his mother walked into a pet store in Kentucky where Will Bird was working carrying a can with a snake in it. They wanted to swop the snake for a turtle as the son wasn't allowed to keep snakes. Will was explaining to them that they don't do trades when he caught sight of the snake for the first time. Stopping in mid sentence, he obliged there request and they left happy with a turtle and full setup. The snake was only young but it was solid white with black pupils and blue irises.

The snake belonged to the Pet Store but Will took a special interest in that snake and says as it grew it developed two black stipes the length of it's back which have continued to get darker throughout it's life. As the snake matured, he began to look for a female from the same locality as this one was found, but without any luck. He decided rather than to waste a breeding season to mate him to a female Amelanistic Black Ratsnake. This breeding produced six eggs which all hatched.

Will left the Pet Store shortly after they hatched to work at Louisville Zoo. Two years later he received a call saying that only two of the babies remained from that litter, he immediately set off for the Pet Store armed with every litter of Carpet Pythons that he had bred that year to strike a deal for them. The trade was made and the pair of snakes went home with Will. The following spring the female laid six perfect eggs. From these six eggs only one normal hatchling emerged, one amelanistic and two were solid white with black eyes and blue irises. The remaining two were solid white with pink eyes.

Will Bird returned to the Pet Store after the first clutch was produced and managed to persuade the owner to part with the Original Lemon Cow Sucker for a seasons worth of Carpet Pythons. He then obtained a female Black Ratsnake from the same road as the 'morph' was found on, to keep this morph locality specific. The first locality hets were produced in 2004 and homozygous in 2006.
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Ratsnakezone

Will, at ectotherms.net brought those into the hobby. Apparently an individual was found and made available to him and it proved to be a simple recessive trait.

I really dig this morph...

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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Brad,....

Glad you and Ryan chimed in on this one and verified the history on those. Those are certainly very cool looking man, and I can plainly see the "lemon" morph you posted there has the real McCoy Black Rat look to it as well.

Hey, do you guys think the "lemon" form was derived from the naturally occurring "greenish" rat??

Just from looking at it, this seems quite plausible too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks Doug

Just to be clear, the animal I posted is a Calico direct from Will. Here's a pic of my het Calico Kentucky '09 female that I got along with him... growing like a weed.

As for Lemons, all I know about them is that they are pretty awesome looking and Will has those too.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Thanks for the info there Brad!

Nice photo of your Kentucky animal too!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That is cool to know that they are pure black rat. Now that I know they are pure I am thinking about picking one or two of them up. Those pics are very cool by the way. very interesting look to them

Allen

>>Will, at ectotherms.net brought those into the hobby. Apparently an individual was found and made available to him and it proved to be a simple recessive trait.
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>>I really dig this morph...
>>
>>
>>
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>> See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Great looking Calico Cow Sucker, Brad! I have considered getting some of those, too - I'm a big fan of calico morphs.

Here's one of my '09 calico Chinese Beauties. Pic is several months old now - need new pics.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

So you could call THOSE "Asian water buffalo suckers"..LOL!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>So you could call THOSE "Asian water buffalo suckers"..LOL!!
>>
>>
>>~Doug
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>>"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>>
>>my website -serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Haha!!! Good one, Doug!
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

I was gonna ask if anyone saw one actually sucking a Cow, lol. That's hilarious!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
J Sierra

The calico cow sucker and the lemon morph are both pure black rat snake (Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta)

Yes I still call them elaphe, the can breed with old world elaphe & "Orthriophis" and they should all still be called elaphe IMO.

>>The calico cow sucker and the lemon morph are both pure black rat snake (Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta)
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>>Yes I still call them elaphe, the can breed with old world elaphe & "Orthriophis" and they should all still be called elaphe IMO.

I can understand wanting to hang on to Elaphe (I waver back and forth over the issue sometimes, myself). But - they (obsoleta and other New World Elaphe) can also breed with Pituophis and Lampropeltis species, and produce viable offspring.

Sorry, but it's just not a strong argument IMHO.

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Yeah yeah the only difference is that old world elaphe still resemble new world in more ways than most pituophis and lampro subspecies do.

I spoke with Will Bird a couple of years ago when I saw the Lemon Yellows. They came from a w/c Kentucky animal. How would you describe the morph? Is it a hypo, T Positive? Just curious. It's a lot like my Moonshine greenish rat snake. A yellow animal with black eyes.

Sounds T but may be something that doesn't fit into all the usual names for morphs. Just a unique simple recessive trait thats awesome.