Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys --

I posted over on the water snakes forum yesterday -- but that forum doesn't get much traffic, so I thought I'd try here.

I have the opportunity to purchase a young mud snake. This snake has already been in captivity for at least 8 months, and it is eating tadpoles and fish. I'm well aware of the dietary preferences of mud snakes, and I've also seen a coupla reports of converting these guys to pinkies. I also know about their semi-aquatic nature, and the need to acidify their water in order to decrease the incidence of blistering.

What I can't find anywhere is recommendations on temperature, and the likelihood of the snake to continue surviving in captivity given that it is already eating. I haven't decided whether to buy the snake yet -- but I've always thought they are quite beautiful, and I'm considering it. Any input/advice would be welcomed!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Good luck with this. I agree; they are beautiful, particularly on the ventral surface. I do not know anyone who keeps them and have never even seen one in a zoo. I have handled a few and they are super strong, cylindrical snakes. Sort of like kingsnakes. Very appealing, but maybe some species are just not meant for captivity. That is, unless, you have an infinite suppy of amphiumas! To say this species has a strict diet preference is an understatement.

>>Good luck with this. I agree; they are beautiful, particularly on the ventral surface. I do not know anyone who keeps them and have never even seen one in a zoo. I have handled a few and they are super strong, cylindrical snakes. Sort of like kingsnakes. Very appealing, but maybe some species are just not meant for captivity. That is, unless, you have an infinite suppy of amphiumas! To say this species has a strict diet preference is an understatement.

Thanks for the response! Since this particular snake is already eating tadpoles and fish I was hoping I could avoid the amphiuma problem....but OTOH, tadpoles and fish aren't always as easy to get ahold of as mice, either!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Amazondoc, I have kept a few muds over the years. The last group I had I captured in 2003 along with several amphiumas I captured and froze as well. I could not get these guys to feed. I tried scenting f/t rat pinks with the amphiumas but no success. I even offered them the actual defrosted amphiumas with no success. Needless to say, these snake are DIFFICULT to keep in captivity IMO. A juvie may be taking tadpoles and feeder fish now, but I GUARANTEE you a four adult will probably need adult sized amphiumas to survive, or at least adult sized bullfrogs or other amphibians. Not saying it cant be done, but be wary of buying "feeding" muds.

Thanks Kevin!

The guy who is selling this snake bought it 8 months ago, so I'm sure it's eating now. However, that's a good thought about its preferences possibly changing over time. I still haven't decided whether I want to deal with it or not. Thanks for the input!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Amazondoc, there comes a time in every herpers life where they just HAVE to work with a difficult species they dream about and feel they have enought knowledge and experience to overcome the hardships. And, many have unfortunately seen these animals wither and die in their care. Not all do, but many do. There is justification that that the animal is already captured, may as well be you to give it as good a chance as possible, etc., etc. I am not saying its not feeding, but I will tell you they can be tough to keep in general and based on my experience. Even with f/t amphiumas I could not get a trio I was keeping to feed!! It has been done, and you may be one of the luck ones that can do it. Just be prepared!!!!

Hiya Kevin --

I decided not to get the snake. I was awfully tempted, though. It's not a snake that could be returned to the wild -- it was purchased from FL and shipped to TN -- and since it had been in captivity for 8 months already I was confident that it is eating right now. And it was awfully cheap, to boot! However, my wiser side took over for once and reminded me that I already have enough projects going on, and I certainly don't need to add a difficult critter to my work load!

Somebody else will probably kill the poor snake in the next coupla months -- but every once in awhile I need to act like an adult and realize that I can't take care of every single interesting critter out there in the world.

Thanks for your input, in any case!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I hear ya Amazondoc. You look at these animals and wonder if you can provide it a better life than someone else since its already in captivity, etc. Still, its wiser to pass. There is a reason such a beautiful and docile snake such as the mudsnake is so cheap!!! I would still keep a mud to this day if I found one in the hopes to get it feeding on mice using scenting techniques, etc. However, I always have the option of letting it go to the swamps if not successful before the snake gets too far in the downward direction.

I still feel bad about not getting that snake. OTOH, I am assuaging my feelings of deprivation by purchasing TWO new hatchling Peruvian rainbows instead of the one I had already planned to buy this summer.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I know how you feel. I guess the justification is if no one buys them they will quit being captured for sale. I think the PRs are a much more gratifying purchase LOL!! I didnt mean to persuade you to NOT buy the mud, just giving friendly advice. They are cool, and I have heard of a few folks being successful with them. Still, I have heard more bad stories than good by far. Good luck with the Peruvians!!

Oh, don't worry. You didn't persuade me -- I persuaded myself. But talking it over a bit with other people helps!

As for the Peruvians -- I've loved rainbows for years. And it is much more sensible -- as well as much less fraught with legal issues -- to keep rainbow boas than mud snakes.

The *real* reason that I'm purchasing an extra Peruvian is because Jeff Clark has such a gorgeous breeder female this year that I simply can't resist buying a hatchling from her litter. But the sire of the litter is the same as the sire of the female I've already got, so I didn't want to buy a male from that litter. And that, of course, means that I "have" to buy an extra snake. So I'm getting a FEMALE from the gorgeous dam's litter, and then I'll get a male from a different litter -- ending up with a breeding trio in which the females are half sisters, but the male will be unrelated. I obviously HAD to do it that way...

So I take one step forward in acting responsible by not buying the mud snake, and one step backward by giving in to the gorgeous dam's temptation. It all balances out.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

There are several snakes I would love to keep, especially smaller colubrids. Some I have kept, but with little to no success and learned early on they were "look but dont keep" animals to admire in the field, etc.

As far as finding a balance, well, good luck with that LOL!! I am still trying to find the pivot point for that with respect to my collection, future breeding plans, etc.

I know what you mean..."see, I was responsible and didn't buy another burm/retic so I should get 3 kingsnakes instead...they're still smaller and easier right?"
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

At least I'm not the only one who thinks that way. ;-D
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
1.3.1 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari, TBA)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
0.0.1 Mexican black kingsnake (Mora)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters