Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Dear Herpers,
In 2009, Atomic Animals produced for the first time in the world a brand new mutation of Boa constrictor longicauda called by those who see them: Patternless Longis. That name simply comes from the fact that these specials Tumbes Boas are a uniform grey with no pattern at all except some brown markings on the tail and sometimes some kind of more or less visible darker stripes on the back sides.
We decided not to make much noise about this mutation until proving it to be genetic. However, some pictures were published in John Berry’s Designer Morphs book and on forums on the Internet as well.
Many of the breeders who saw those boas thought them to be a recessive trait. That’s also what John wrote in the chapter dedicated to them.
In 2010, Atomic Animals has once more produced some of these stunning snakes and is proud to introduce his genetically proven Atomic Patternless Tumbes Boas (APTB).
As expected by many, the Atomic Patternless Tumbes Boas’ gene is, as far as I can logically conclude, a recessive one.
I will very soon publish on the Atomic Animals’ website (www.atomic-animals.com) a page dedicated to this spectacular new mutation with detailed story and photos. I will also post photos of the now one year old babies’ evolution, stay tuned!
I wish you a nice day.
Phil
www.atomic-animals.com
philippe.savarin@atomic-animals.com

wow very cool, first I heard about them.
congrats!

They look just like the sterling boas that were just produced this year and recently posted after first shed???
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

They're much like the ones called sterling, as someone else pointed out, except these are longis and are gray in color. My question is: are they like a "super" of a co-Dom trait? I ask cause there's only 2 or 3 in the litter of 18 or so, or if you bred a het to het your odds could of been roughly 25% give or take. I suppose my next question is, did you breed what you thought was a het to het pairing and were your APTB average around 25%? Awesome animals and excuse the curiosity I'm just very interested in this locale specific morph.

"They're much like the ones called sterling, as someone else pointed out, except these are longis and are gray in color."

I don't know if the Sterlings" are proven, but I should add that I already produced some APTB in 2009.

My question is: are they like a "super" of a co-Dom trait? I ask cause there's only 2 or 3 in the litter of 18 or so, or if you bred a het to het your odds could of been roughly 25% give or take.
I suppose my next question is, did you breed what you thought was a het to het pairing and were your APTB average around 25%? Awesome animals and excuse the curiosity I'm just very interested in this locale specific morph

I bred back the same pair as last year. I would say that this trait is recessive as if we consider the parents to be Hets, the result matches as I obtained 2 homozygous babies over 11 babies in the litter.
Phil
www.atomic-animals.com

Did the parents of the ATBT have any other markers similar to a Motley? For example, fully connected back pattern, lateral striping or lack of belly speckles?

In fact the male is a gorgeous black and white type while the female lacks some of the head markings. Her head is Grey with spots of black but no entire black markings. Her eyes don't contain the black line crossing them usually but only reduce markings. She also has some disrupted saddles just behind and on her neck. The rest of the body seems normal.
Phil
www.atomic-animals.com

...

Hermann and Erika Stöckl also produced what they are calling Longicauda Zeros(2010)... same genetic transmition as motley.

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/com.html

Matt Schubarth

Just a Peruvian BCC below but I had to attach a picture...

Actually, the litter last year had a number of variants within that litter. That is a couple babies that looked very similar to the patternless babies. Several reverse stripe babies were in the litter with one in particular that looked exactly like an intermediate form that you might expect to see if the patternless animals were actually "Supers". Still the genetics is unknown and something that I think we will all watch with great anticipation.

The Magee litter also had at least one reverse stripe animal. That is at least with last years litter something they had in common. Still nothing is proven in either line regarding the nature of this abnormality.

In the future when the precise nature of this particular mutation is proven, it seems most likely that the other patternless varieties where more than one offspring was produced are probably genetically identical. Though that cannot be stated until proven. I think it is entirely possible that one line may be the product of a co-dom mutation while the other may be the product of a simple recessive mutation.

Time will tell. Great fun and congrats!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Philippe,
As I explained today on a French forum in a long post (I’ll make it shorter), last years I had doubts about the fact that they were pure longicauda’s for one main reason. Nearly all the longicauda out there have the same origines, I mean that the original genetic pool is quite limited, whatever breeders can say, inbreeding must has been done to keep it ‘pure’. Many people bought pairs, brother/ siter or very closely related ones, so I thought that if there was a gene, it was almost impossible for it not to have allready popped out ! Now that Herman S. has got the same results this year (called ‘zero’), I am a beleiver and it confirmed what I was thinking. I am now sure that in a very close future patternless will pop out in longicauda breeding, mainly littermate breedings.
I say that because it’s logical and that we have had the same thing here in Europe with the moelia spilota variegata (irian jaya) granite. Suddenly in 2006, they have started to appear with littermate breeding pairs, 2 breeders in France, 1 in Belgium, 1 in Danmark and may be some others I am not aware off. In that case, a breeder start it alone and it came afterwood with other breeder. In that case to the originzl gene pool was poor and it was not possible to breed without inbreeding. Inbreeding isn’t the best way to have a chance to reveal a new mutations ?
I also think in that case, nothing is proved when it comes to inherance, what happened with the scorias ? They came out from a normal pair, they also have a reduce pattern and proved out to be a dominant form.!! We have to prove not to guess, I think.
Thanks for reading.
Alain.

Since our Zeros are mentioned here we want to contribute some words of explanation:

We don't know whether the patternless longicaudas from atomic reptiles and ours are of the same strain. We haven't seen these boas in the flesh so it's hard to make a judgement. In our opinion they are very similar but there are also differences.

Our Zeros emerged from the breeding of two very different bloodlines of boa c. longicauda who haven't been brought together before.

In our opinion there are more different bloodlines of boa c. longicauda than most of the people are aware of. We know what we are talking about because we breed them since 1997 and got a lot of information from Bill Edelbrock during our visits in Long Beach. In the mid 90ies some longicaudas even were sold in pet shops in the US.

We can exclude a crossbreeding and/or inbreeding in our Zeros. In fact, the parents are as unrelated as it can be.

Information on Zeros

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