Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hy i am alessandro from italy.
after having seen the pictures of mr boaphile of the hiperpigmented peruvian i tought i nedd some advice to definitely identify this animal.
she was sold to ma as a peruvian (non specified the origin). while she was growing she intensified the black color on the sides. not able to take better pictures but look really black.
what do you think?
is she a peruvian?
if yes, can she be close to the one of mr boaphile?
if no, what is she?
what would be the best pairing?

any suggestion will be really appreciated
best wishes
alessandro

Hi there Alessandro,
I'm sorry to say that, but this is not a Peruvian redtail, looks rather Colombian Bci to me. But without documents her origin will never be proven. Hopefully, you didn't spend that much money a pure Peruvian redtail is worth on the European market (250-400 Euro). Maybe you should contact the seller to clarify her origin. Nice looking boa by the way!

This is my opinion only, but I hope some other folks will confirm my statement.

All the best,
Adam

>>Hi there Alessandro,
>>I'm sorry to say that, but this is not a Peruvian redtail, looks rather Colombian Bci to me. But without documents her origin will never be proven. Hopefully, you didn't spend that much money a pure Peruvian redtail is worth on the European market (250-400 Euro). Maybe you should contact the seller to clarify her origin. Nice looking boa by the way!
>>
>>This is my opinion only, but I hope some other folks will confirm my statement.
>>
>>All the best,
>>Adam

That was our thoughts too Adam. Like you said, all you can do is ask the seller if he has some better info on her. Good looking girl though.
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I hope no one takes this wrong but that animal if not whole peruvian is at least very much part, bci almost never have the long solid saddles, this is common however in peruvians and your animal has 2 very long "aberrant" looking saddles, however for peruvians this is common, also yellowish background color which is a peruvian trait as well and why i say if not full peruvian its great part peruvian. The fact is this animal darkened up with age, i dont believe it to be hypermelanstic, i believe it to be a "below average" looking peruvian if you consider the less the speckles to be the nicer look. I quite like this animals as it stands. I say this is a decent example of a peruvian that went dark and lost much of the redding on the tail blotches as well as it darkened. Here in the USA via selective breeding, the peruvians have been showing cleaner in terms of speckles and redder in terms of tail blotches. I believe if you went to peru and grabbed a wild animal it would look very much like yours and that is a good thing too. ive had issues stating my opinion with other memebers of the herp community, so let me state for the purpose of full disclosure, im in South Florida, imported many years from Guyana, Suriname and saw many peruvians brought in from others and have seen my share of animals fresh out of the box and feel confident saying this I am stating. I won 2.3 breeder sized peruvians and 1 is very similar to yours.

but I have to disagree with you. Having two "abberant saddles" does not prove anything. They just doesn't make a boa Peruvian and exclude being Colombian Bci. Also, I have seen and bred several Colombians with abberant saddles. First striped boas were also Colombian Bci in captivity.
The fact is that Peruvian redtails are certianly closely related to Colombians than Suriname or Guyanan redtails. No surprise, they look similar a bit. Just think of round-shaped saddles, rather orange colored tail, no peaks and some other imperator influences etc. However, Peruvian redtails and Colombian boas are two distinct forms and they are usually easy to recognise.
IMO, this is a pure Colombian Bci with some abberant saddles.

That animal is not a Colombian cause it has a dark ugly tail. Massiveness, head size saddles, it's got all the makings of something other than a bci, and many things like a Peru. I'm bases out of Miami, where many questionable were imported properly or not. I'm not speaking out of place. I would not put money on your statement Adam, smart money anyway...

You can't really make generalizations based on the small representative sample of boas that were imported into the US.... Surely there is alot more out there that noone here in the states understands......

Too often these industry classifications are confused with real science and fact..... A random sampling of boas imported from various channels over the years is hardly a yardstick to develop some sort of standard to determine locality
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Agreed however that's another theory on it's own your stating also which leaves alot up to assumption too as your guessing this your stating. These forums and what is stated on them unfortunately are based on what's available for us to base our opinions and spend our times making our cases for why we think what we do. And what's available is none other than the specimens that have entered the hobby which by the way in the case of peruvians is quite sizable. And furthermore may I add we don't have to import the entire wild population of an area or region to make generalizations. I believe there have been way more than enough peruvians imported and photographed in the wild to make a pretty educated statement.

Well, I have always considered "Colombian Bci" as an intermediate form. They are distinct from both classic Central American boas and Amazonian redtails. There are no serious taxonomists or experts that will doubt that. However, these "Colombian Bci" come from the Northern side of the Andes, while red tails (Bcc)occur in the Southern, Amazonian side. I have seen few samples from Southern Colombia and I must say no one could separate them from Iquitos Bcc, they look that similar. But there is nobody known in the US who would have Colombian Bcc in captivity, as Colombia exports only CB Bci.

And statement like "That animal is not a Colombian cause it has a dark ugly tail" is just way too swampy to say the least. So you have never seen colombian boas (Bci) with dark tail, blocky saddles, abberant patterns? I have and will try to find some pics...Now I attached one of mine, a 13 years old Colombian with pretty ugly tail.

You really can't just guess by looking at this boa.... was it taken from Amazonas, Colombia..... or Loreto Peru?? both are separated by an imaginary line created by man.... It's kind of like getting into the Suri x Guyana debate.....
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Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

I agree whole heartedly with Guyana vs. Suriname thats bcc vs bcc, however bci as Adam stated vs Peru it's bci vs bcc/bco....

You could be right Mr. Manny.

It does have a Peruvian looking head and a relatively low saddle count. It's kind of fat isn't it?!

Here is a Peruvian that could pass for it's brother:

Don't think so? Here is his sister:

Here is a picture of a pair of the babies the two I showed above produced a few weeks back:

Then again, when you don't have better information regarding the origin of an animal, it's really just a guess. A scale count can be helpful but certainly not definitive. Peruvians usually have 90 plus scale rows. Colombians usually have 82-88 scale rows at mid-body. That still does not guarantee anything though. I have personally not counted the scale rows of a known Colombian with more than 90 scale rows or a Peruvian with fewer than 89. I have counted at least 30 of each mostly in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

Have fun!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

hy again thank to everybody who answered me.
the reason why asked your help is because i was (and still i am ) unsure of the provenience of the animal and i was thinking to breed her...but....with who?
i have a small peruvian male which is still not ready but before making any more mix i was trying to make it clear.
i will try to count on the row (not really easy, not always tame), to be onest look to me really yellow and the head is more likely the pure peruvian than a colombian
as far as i have understood, unless you know for sure the origin and unless is a "marked" peruvian, you can not be sure
am i wrong?
thanks again
alessandro

Do the scale counts by a shed skin, its much easier.
You are right, you can not be sure about the origin without the documents needed.
I wish Gus Rentfro or Vincent Russo have read this thread, I'm sure they would share my thoughts. Gus has probably seen and bred more Peruvians than anybody else, so his words can be crucial. If you are still uncertain, I would suggest you to ask their opinions.

All the best,
Adam